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oxymoran
Managing Editor
USA
427 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 10:44:32
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Doug Preston is only too familiar with Judge Giuliano Mignini, the pubblico ministero (public prosecutor) holding UW honor student Amanda Knox, her boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede as suspects in the Nov. 1 murder of foreign exchange student Meredith Kercher in Perugia, Italy.
Preston is a journalist as well as a New York Times best-selling novelist and "student of crime."
His newest work, The Monster of Florence, is a nonfiction tale about the infamous serial killer who plagued Florence during the 1970s and 1980s. Preston's book about this killer, who was never caught, will hit stores in June.
Preston first encountered Mignini, one of the prosecutors in the Monster case, when he started researching the crime. Mignini didn't appreciate Preston and his writing partner, Mario Spezi, poking into the facts. He had Spezi arrested and thrown into Capanne prison, where the three Meredith suspects are also housed, and accused him of being the Monster of Florence himself. Spezi has since been freed.
Preston was forced to leave Italy, an experience he recounts in The Monster of Florence.
"When I lived in Italy, I was the target of an investigation by Mignini in which he tapped my cell phone, bugged my writing partner's car and hauled me down to Perugia for an interrogation," Preston says. "He accused me of obstruction of justice, perjury, planting false evidence and even being an accessory to murder. I am still under indictment in Italy for a string of secret crimes."
In a bizarre turnaround, Mignini himself is now on trial for abuse of office and conflict of interest, even though he continues to prosecute the Kercher case, as Corriere della Serra revealed on Jan. 18.
"The Florentine prosecutor, Luca Turco, has accused Mignini of being 'in thrall to a sort of delirium' in his handling of the Monster case, in which he fantasized amazing and complex Satanic conspiracies," says Preston. "I believe the same could be said of his handling of the Kercher case, that he is suffering from some kind of delirium. "
Here Preston comments on the murder in Perugia as a crime writer, not a detective. The opinions expressed are his, ranging from the DNA analysis of key evidence to his take on Knox's MySpace page and his comments on whether or not the cottage that Knox and Kercher shared was bleached after the killing.
His comments are "speculation, but informed speculation," he says.
1. Who do you think killed Meredith Kercher?
This is a very simple rape and murder, to me obviously committed by this fellow Rudy Guede. All of the forensic evidence points toward him. He's a man with a history of petty crime, a known drug dealer. I believe he is the culprit.
2. But the prosecution has claimed this was a "group action" with the three suspects engaged in an elaborate sex game, resisted by the victim.
Look, I write thrillers for a living. And in my thrillers the person you least expect is the guilty party. But in real life, it doesn't work like that. There is no conspiracy here. In real life, murders are banal and obvious.
This case is no different than any other. I have seen the photos. This was a typical rape and murder scene. Sure, there will be loose ends.Even the most banal crimes have a puzzling element to them. No case ever adds up completely. People cannot expect that.
3. What do you think of Rudy's story, that Meredith invited him in for consensual sex?
I am familiar with a number of actual cases of rape and murder. The rapist's most common defense is 'The victim and I had consensual sex. I left, somebody else came in and murdered the victim. I came back, saw what had happened, got scared and ran.'
Let me tell you, this is the pathetic lie they all tell. In this case Guede says he has sex and then goes into the bathroom and puts on an iPod and listens to music on the toilet. He claims someone else comes in and murders the victim. It was a small house, but he doesn't hear the victim scream.
Well, you can still hear other sounds when you are wearing an iPod. You are going to hear a scream. When he finds her, does he help her, call the police, or call an ambulance, like any normal person would? No. He flees the country. Because, he says, he was afraid they would think he did it.
His entire story is, in my opinion, an obvious lie.
4. Do you think Amanda Knox played a role in the murder?
Amanda had absolutely nothing to do with the murder. The outpouring of abuse toward her is extremely disturbing. I am convinced she is innocent, and I cannot understand why there has been such a bloodthirsty rush to judgment.
The ugly anti-Americanism in the Italian and British press is perhaps understandable (although inexcusable), but why the same in America? Some of the comments posted in response to your blog verge on the psychotic.
5. How can you be so certain of her innocence?
Nobody can be completely certain in a criminal case, but the evidence is overwhelming that she had nothing to do with it. Absolutely not.
All the forensic evidence is weak against her. If you look at each supposedly damning detail, it all falls apart.
6. Give us some examples.
Let's start with the knife that is supposed to have Amanda's DNA and Meredith's DNA on it. That is the one found in the boyfriend's apartment. Well, Amanda handled all the knives in her boyfriend's apartment, so her DNA is going to be on that knife.
Then there is that speck of DNA on the top of the blade that is supposed to be Meredith's. But the Italian forensic lab says it has only a 20 percent probability of being hers. That is only one out of five.
So the police say, "Oh, the knife shows traces of bleach so it must have been washed to hide the crime."
But in Italy, as in the U.S., many dishwashing detergents contain bleach. Hence the unsurprising discovery of bleach on the knife.
Another example: Amanda lived in that little house. Her DNA is everywhere. It is mingled in with everything. So any blood on a surface in the apartment has a good chance of mingling with her pre-existing DNA.
Finally, some of the crucial forensic evidence was gathered a month after the murder, when the murder scene had been unaccountably rearranged and spoiled by incompetent investigators.
Picture
7. Most reporters, especially in Italy and the U.K., put her in the center of events.
That is The Scarlet Letter all over again. That is the witch-hunt, The Crucible, the sick mob tendency to see somebody proclaimed guilty before there has even been a trial.
Many of these reporters, even in Knox's hometown of Seattle, are simply rewriting and reporting what the Italian papers publish, which is based on information leaked from the prosecutor's office. They might as well put Mignini's byline on these articles for what they're worth. Picture
8. What's your take on Knox's MySpace page, which has created a sensation in the British and Italian tabloids?
She had a normal MySpace page. I looked at it and there was just nothing special about it, despite all the hype. It's what you would expect of a college girl.
To me, she seems like a very nice girl. A really kind, wonderful girl. It is just so unlikely that a girl with no criminal past would commit that kind of crime. People like her almost never do.
When they do, they usually confess right away.
9. What about Raffaele Sollecito, the other suspect?
I looked at him and said right away, "This guy is not a killer. Are you kidding me?"
I think he is just as innocent as Amanda is. They are not protecting each other. They are innocent.
He seems like a perfectly normal nice Italian boy. He has not ever shown any sign of deviancy. He comes from a good family. He had a normal upbringing. He looks like a fine upstanding Italian ragazzo.
People like that very seldom kill people.
10. If the crime is so simple, then why is the prosecutor's theory so complicated?
Giuliano Mignini is a prosecutor who just falls in love with conspiracy theories. Nothing is simple. Nothing is what it seems.
Let me give you an example of this. My co-writer Spezi and I believe the Monster of span Florence is a lone psychopath. He killed seven couples, fourteen people. He mutilated the women and cut off their sex organs. Really horrifying.
A psychological profile prepared by the American FBI of the Monster stated that he is a lone killer. All the Italian forensic psychologists stated he was a lone killer. And all the evidence gathered at the crime scenes pointed to a single perpetrator.
But this is too simple for Mignini. He believes the Monster killings were the work not of a lone killer but a satanic sect dating back to the Middle Ages. His theory, based on nonexistent evidence, supposition and conspiracy logic, was that this sect was operating in high places in government and they needed female body parts to perform Black Masses.
All these conspiracy theories, they almost never happen in real life. And they do not happen to a girl like Amanda who has never been in trouble and had a normal life back in Seattle.
11. What do you make of Amanda changing her story? First she said she spent the entire night with Raffaele. After a long interrogation at the police station, sans lawyer, she said she was at the murder house, but stayed in the kitchen. When she heard Meredith screaming in the bedroom, she was so scared that she put her hands over her ears. Once she was in prison and had a lawyer present, she reverted to her original story.
Well, first of all, do not believe everything you read in the newspapers. You cannot trust anything coming out of Mignini's office.
In the Monster case, prosecutors leaked evidence to the papers that turned out to be false. One of the cops working closely with Mignini on the Monster case was actually indicted for falsifying the tape of an interrogation.
There is a supposed seal of secrecy over the Kercher investigation, but that allows the prosecutor to leak selective things to the newspapers while preventing independent journalists from exploring alternative theories.
So that is my advice to people: Do not believe everything you read.
12. So you think Amanda was at her boyfriend's when Meredith died?
Yes, I believe Amanda's story that she was not there. She has been very consistent except for that one departure. Look, if she was in the house that night, she would have called the police. She would have done what any normal person would do in that situation.
It was only at that one point, after 14 hours of interrogation, that she seemed to waver and say she was in the house with her hands over her ears. If she did indeed waver.
You have no idea what it is like to be interrogated. It is a frightening experience. It is easy to break you down.
Mignini interrogated me for two hours, demanding I confess to a crime I did not commit, and it was terrifying. He is a powerful interrogator.
I could imagine what would happen to a 20-year-old who has been pressured for 14 hours. She could break down and say things, anything, just to stop the interrogation. They really browbeat you.
12. Prosecutors haven't yet offered proof that Amanda even knew Rudy Guede, yet they contend the two exchanged phone calls before and after the murder. What do you make of that?
This is another "damning" piece of evidence leaked by the prosecutor's office that I would ask readers to treat with great skepticism.
This detail, for example, contradicts other information, also apparently released by the prosecutor's office, that Amanda and her boyfriend turned off their cell phones at 8:00 p.m.
Look through all the evidence leaked to the press and you will find many contradictions like this. As one distinguished judge said in the Monster of Florence case: "Half a clue plus half a clue does not equal a whole clue: it equals nothing!"
The prosecutor decided Knox was guilty and is now collecting the evidence against her, which, like the above, are all half-clues, carefully cherry-picked from the mass of evidence. This is not how a proper criminal investigation should proceed, as any homicide detective in the United States would tell you.
One other detail that American readers might like to know: in Italy, prosecutors are firmly in charge. They tell the police what to look for, where to go, what evidence to analyze, what evidence not to analyze. In America, the police work independently and are specifically trained in evidence gathering and criminal investigation.
In Italy, the police must do what the prosecutor tells them. As a result, many criminal investigations in Italy are botched by prosecutors who are judges, trained in the law, who have no background in criminal investigation, police work, or forensic science.
14. Police contend the cottage was bleached after the killing to remove evidence. What do you make of that?
Many common household cleaners and laundry detergents contain chlorine (also called bleach). If police chemists swept your house or mine for chlorine, they would find it almost everywhere. On the floors, in the bathroom, on windows, in the kitchen, on knives run through the dishwasher, in the laundry room, on your clothes!
In short, chlorine can be found on almost any surface that is regularly washed. It is a persistent and ubiquitous chemical which lasts a long time and doesn't biodegrade. Those Italian police chemists are recovering chlorine in parts per million quantities.
The "house was bleached" statement is another deliberately misleading "clue" put forth by the prosecutors to make Knox look guilty, when they know perfectly well it would not stand up in court.
This is the Duke rape case all over again. I would urge your outraged readers, especially those shrill ones from the U.K., to calm themselves down and try to exercise what little critical faculties they possess.
15. Is Perugia a dangerous place in general?
No, not at all. I think that Meredith probably had an expectation of safety when she was walking home alone that night. Italians do in general. Not in Rome or Naples, maybe, but certainly in Tuscany and Umbria. People are out and about. They walk everywhere. They feel pretty safe.
16. What do you think is going to happen to Amanda?
I am concerned. I am deeply concerned. I think she may be kept in prison until her trial, and I think quite certainly she will be acquitted. This happens all the time in Italy. People get held in preventive detention as "dangerous criminals" and then are acquitted and set free.
I am afraid she is going to spend quite a bit of time in jail unless the Italian system comes to its senses and replaces Mignini with a prosecutor not suffering from prosecutorial "delirium."
If it does, then she might get out early.
17. What about the other two suspects?
I think Guede acted on his own. The others are innocent.
This is the sixth in a series on the Meredith Kercher murder:
Amanda Knox: What if she's innocent?
Amanda Knox: Trial by trollarazzi
Meredith Kercher murder: Shouting at the table
Amanda Knox: What's Seattle got to do with it?
Meredith Kercher: Murder in our sister city
Note from Doug Preston: The Monster of Florence isn't available in bookstores yet, but review copies of bound galleys of the Monster book are available now to qualified reviewers. They can email me from my website.
Author photo: Boston Globe, Fred J. Field. Used with permission from the author.
Posted by Candace Dempsey at February 8, 2008 3:22 p.m.
Category: Murder in Perugia
Comments
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#96077
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 3:28 p.m.
Ciao, readers,
When leaving comments, please remember to use tact and consideration. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer hosts my blog. It is a family-oriented newspaper based in the hometown of Amanda Knox. Many family members and friends live here. Please be polite.
Comments will be deleted if they are:
1. Abusive
2. Degrading to women
3. Libelous (U.S. law applies)
4. Threatening
5. Rude
6. Insulting to me or to my readers
7. Overly graphic portrayals of the victim's final hours
8. Off-topic
9. Untrue
10. About the personality of the writer, instead of the topic (either Doug Preston or me).
You are free to disagree with the interview in a polite manner or offer your own views of the case.
I enjoy the many comments I get from readers all over the world.
If I delete a comment and you feel it was in error, please email me.
Grazie,
Candace Dempsey
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#96097
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 3:58 p.m.
Wow!
Very nice!
Well said!
Doug and Candace, thank you for this wonderful article.
Mignini is crazy.
Amanda is innocent.
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#96101
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:13 p.m.
Again in interest of fairness, I have a question that always fails to get answered, but never fails to get me banished.
And I am struck by a comment I saw on another blog. That comment said that "a source close to the family recruited a Vanity Fair writer to help with the ABC 20/20 piece.
Being local, a self proclaimed award winning writer, might YOU Candace, be this friend of the family?
I do find it rather odd that someone who typically writes on food and travel would be so wound up in a murder investigation
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#96104
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:18 p.m.
Yes, thank you. Certainly appreciated reading the opinion of a credible person with first hand knowledge of Mignini's tactics - as opposed to reading the absolutely wacky theories that are being discussed ad nauseum on the other blog site.
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#96107
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:23 p.m.
#96101
Who cares if she is or isn't? It really doesn't matter. I see absolutely no value in your question. Perhaps you are right on the edge of a new blog breaking theory?
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#96121
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 4:42 p.m.
Readers: I am working to fix the problems with typography on this story. Basically everywhere there is an apostrophe, I have to remove it.
I am as usual amused by this particular commenter. Is it never possible for you to ask me a question except in a sour voice? The answer is no, just like the answer to all your previous rude questions. Now what are your credentials as a journalist?
"Again in interest of fairness, I have a question that always fails to get answered, but never fails to get me banished.
And I am struck by a comment I saw on another blog. That comment said that "a source close to the family recruited a Vanity Fair writer to help with the ABC 20/20 piece.
Being local, a self proclaimed award winning writer, might YOU Candace, be this friend of the family?
I do find it rather odd that someone who typically writes on food and travel would be so wound up in a murder investigation."
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#96126
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:48 p.m.
What an ignorant man. Now the people of the UK with an opinion need to act on the "little critical faculties" tehy have. What stupidity, maybe he needs to jsut go back to writing stories of his opinions and stop churning out stupid stereotypes.
This is his opinion after all but everyone else is stupid for having theirs? Also stop comparing one case to another because the two are not the same and jsut because a crime previously turned out one way does not mean the next will be the same.
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#96127
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:48 p.m.
Excellent interview. Kudos to you both. Nice to hear a voice of reason, and as much as I would like him to answer every trivial contention offered up on the previous blogs, I think he handled the whole theory with a very logical and knowledgeable perspective. I should hope lawyers in this case will not bog down the trial with such petty matters that seem to concern too many people on the various blogs about this case, even though the evidence is clearly explained by Mr. Preston's responses.
I hope his predictions about the outcome are correct. And I hope Mr Mignini is relegated to misdemeanor cases of petty crimes. Perhaps his prosecutorial skills and conspiracy theories would be better suited to solving the problem of illegal parking and shoplifting.
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#96134
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:57 p.m.
Really interesting to see Doug Preston interviewed here. I know about his Monster of Florence book but I have been reading his smart thrillers for several years. Indeed thousands of others have too. He currently has a book on the New York Times list right now.
His take on the case seems spot on. This crime looks like the work of one man and the "theory" the work of one man.
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#96137
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 4:58 p.m.
I have one question that has not really been addressed or answered. And that is why, if we assume Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent, which we must do, a small but vocal group appears desperate to prevent the preliminary investigation from wrapping up? Based on your strong belief that they are totally innocent, it is more than likely that they will not be charged and will be released. If the evidence against them is as weak as you say, then that is surely what will happen. Amanda Knox said in December that she was serene and had faith in the Italian system. The Kercher family, through their lawyer, has said the same thing. So why not let justice take its course?
I don't believe most of what I have read about this case in the press, but I'm afraid that includes what you have published here. There's an air of desperation. It's almost as if you don't want the body of evidence to be heard.
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#96139
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:01 p.m.
96137
What body of evidence are you referring to?
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#96141
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:06 p.m.
In defence of the brits, I doubt they all believe the tabliod-type claptrap that has been reported in the various brit-media outlets. I think many of them buy the tabloids mainly for page three.
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#96145
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:12 p.m.
"What body of evidence are you referring to?"
I'm referring to whatever evidence has been collected and will be presented at the end of the preliminary investigation.
I'm not referring to what has been leaked to the press.
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#96149
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:27 p.m.
I will bet you Preston has a bone to pick. He and his co-author were unjustly accussed of heinous crimes by this Mignini for his own purposes. It is informed picking and the way this current case has been handled make Preston's comments quite on the mark.
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#96154
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:39 p.m.
This guy is worried about people rushing to judgments, but yet he can take one look at Sollecito and declare him innocent? Interesting.
He's also worried about Mignini's supposed conspiracy theories, but he indicates that the media is on a "witch hunt" and has created the "Scarlet Letter all over again" and of course claims the prosecutor's office is leaking deliberately misleading clues because of his "delirium". Umm, ok.
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#96155
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:44 p.m.
#96154
Can't spin this. The delium comment was made by the Prosecutor of Florence. His countryman.
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#96156
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:45 p.m.
Thanks so much for letting Mr. Preston speak out. I think it's great that he realizes neither Amanda nor Raffaele could possibly have anything to do with this crime, and that he has the guts to say what is so obvious to many, that you can tell they're innocent just by looking at them and seeing what kind of families they come from. I just don't understand how anyone could possibly think otherwise.
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#96157
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:50 p.m.
#96145
What evidence are you referring that has been collected? The evidence has been compromised to say the least. How the evidence was collected and protected is inexcusable!
Candace, you should never reveal your sources of information as this would violate your responsibility towards your industry. I don't care whether you write about frying crickets or chewing juicy fruit gum. I am most impressed that you picked up on this story when all others locally (nationaly/internationly as well) refused. As they sat back and waited to copy the news releases out of UK and Italy, you took the time to investigate, compile and captivate us all with the opportunity to have dialog about this case as you presented us with ideas and challenging questions. I would suspect that your openness has opened some doors to other information (like Preston's) that has rewarded you with good insight to this crime. You have used your knowledge wisely!
I'm not a journalist but I have been one of the lucky ones to see and read some of Preston's "book" about the monster of Florence. What struck me back nearly 6 weeks ago were the similarities between how Mignini and Company" was executing their investigation of both crimes. Shameful as it may be, he is still in charge of the investigation when he should ethically step aside. I have been ranting on other boards in regards to Mignini's troubles and have even challenged locals in Perugia to demand a change in the case oversight, but no … they just hide behind their shadows.
Amanda will be able to write her story someday (Candace I see an opportunity here)....it will be titled "The Monster of Perugia" and this could be about Mignini solely or maybe even the judicial system as a whole. Both (to me) are the "monster" in this case.
In closing, it seems typical to see the normal nay-sayers coming out to acknowledge their grief about anyone questioning whether Amanda or Rafael are innocent. Truth be told, they still are innocent and the fact they have not been charged makes this conclusion simple. Just like the case described in the interview with Preston, this case should be simple yet we see the conspired theories that have run amuck and left 2 young adults locked up as they wait for fairness to prevail.
WhoIsTheMonsterOfFlorence
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#96159
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:51 p.m.
96149: "the way this current case has been handled make Preston's comments quite on the mark"
Please elaborate. It would be quite useful to have a list with sources of all the mistakes that have been made so far.
This guy Preston called the prosection "incompetent". Do you know what he is referring to as far as this case goes? I'm really interested in knowing! Thanks in advance.
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#96160
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 5:54 p.m.
I cannot tell you how pleased I am that you interviewed someone who actually knows how things go on the criminal case front in Italy. I have been mystified at how this whole murder case has been reported and it has crossed my mind that this poor girl may be sitting in an Italian prison with real murderers when her greatest crime was being an American kid in a foreign country.
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#96168
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 6:02 p.m.
"a source close to the family recruited a Vanity Fair writer"
Clear the writer of this comment does not undertand the magazine business or Vanity Fair. They are so full of themselves at Vanity Fair you could not "recruit" them to do anything for you.
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#96169
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 6:13 p.m.
Wow, what an interview! Thank you Candace and Mr. Preston. I've wondered if you were following this case, or if your own experience with Mignini had caused you to not even glance in that direction.
I'm thrilled to read your thoughts about the case, and the ways in which Knox and Sollecito's persecutions parallel your own.
I'm looking forward to reading The Monster of Florence. I enjoyed the Dateline program about the case and your own and Spezi's ordeal in Perugia. I was surprised when this case came along involving the same prosecutor pushing the same vulgar theories.
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#96170
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 6:14 p.m.
Readers,
1. I have included Doug's offer of free books to reviewers because most of my friends are journalists. They are not wealthy people and cannot afford to buy their own copies of books to review. I'm sure they will be delighted if a writer of Doug's stature sends them his book. I'm thrilled to feature his comments on my blog.
2. Our friends in the U.K. seem to be under the impression that journalists in the U.S. are paid for their labors by PR companies. That is b.s. And it says a lot about British tabloids that you'd even ask that question.
Now let's talk about the Meredith Kercher case. That's what's on the table
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#96171
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 6:17 p.m.
And thank you, Palmetto. It's always good to hear from you. I remember you kept pressing me to look into the Monster case. It's just fascinating.
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#96176
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 6:29 p.m.
I am so happy you talked with Douglas Preston about this awful crime and the worldwide reactions to it. Preston has big time cred in the journalistic and publishing world. The people who give quotes to his work and love his work are the top, top writers in the crime genre. I mean Edgar Award winners read Preston.
If people would pay more attention to the words and not just try to spin or discredit, they would also notice that you Candace are a superb writer. Clean, clear, careful...ummm...very New Yorker-y in your own right.
You can remove this so it does not become troll bait but there are intelligent readers out there who don't always take the time to comment. Yes I am from Seattle.
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#96183
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 6:43 p.m.
96176
You have made my day! I would be thrilled to take a troll hit for you any time. And I adore the New Yorker. There is no higher honor.
Thank you so much.
Candace
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#96187
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:00 p.m.
I'm just a little confused. You say this Mignini guy is "on trial" for his alleged mishandling of the case involving Preston. Is the trial going on now?
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#96192
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:05 p.m.
First ABC and Joe Tacopina and now Doug Preston. What more will it take for the Italian authorities to realise they are, as Doug says, "incompetent" when it comes to investigating criminal matters? Who is our ambassador to Italy? Why is he not demanding that Amanda Knox be set free right now? This is an outrage.
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#96197
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 7:15 p.m.
Candace, I got a good laugh when Mr. Preston commented, "They might as well put Mignini's byline on these articles for what they're worth."
I wanted to comment about Mr. Sollecito's celebrity-like presence. I believe he is intentionally making himself a familar sight to the public in Perugia as part of his personal campaign so his son will not seem like an outsider to the locals. He, and the legal team, are always smiling. How would that be interpreted by the citizens in Perugia?
I think he's a dapper looking gentleman, and it must be difficult for him to wear the happy face while his son is in this terrible mess.
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#96199
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:24 p.m.
96192
Italian authorities are incompetent investigating criminal matters? Oddly enough, Italy has a violent crime rate an order of magnitude lower than the US, so I guess they're doing something right.
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#96201
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 7:34 p.m.
96199
To declare "case closed" before any of the forensic evidence is analyzed seems incompetent to me. That's #1.
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#96203
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:40 p.m.
About: Italian authorities are incompetent investigating criminal matters? Oddly enough, Italy has a violent crime rate an order of magnitude lower than the US, so I guess they're doing something right.
Isn't that kind of a sophist argument? I mean Tomás de Torquemada had a fabulous conviction rate.
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#96204
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:42 p.m.
Some of you don't know Candace at all.
You've grouped her into "food or travel writer" etc. Perhaps that is how you came to know her, this time. That's fair.
Candace is tour de force. I have followed her writing for many years.
She is a journalist.
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#96206
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:50 p.m.
Boy, I guess Mr. Preston really doesn't like that Mignini guy very much. Thanks for giving him this wonderful opportunity to vent. I guess it's just a matter of time now before Amanda and Raffaele are released and Rudy goes on trial. What a relief for those of us who know the simple truth!
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#96209
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 7:58 p.m.
I would harbor a great deal more emotion than Mr. Preston displays with someone who tried to deprive me from my liberty for spurious reasons. Way more.
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#96211
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 8:10 p.m.
For those who wanted to know more about the charges against Mignini, the prosecutor in the Monster of Florence and now in the Meredith Kercher case, here is an early story in Italian. Nov. 9.
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2006/11_Novembre/09/firenze.shtml
Here are some graphs that Doug translated for me from the Jan. 17 article that I mentioned in his interview.
From Corriere della Sera
January 17, 2008
Yesterday, the first round in the Monster case
Preliminary Hearing for Giuttari and Mignini
The ex-Head of Gides: “Groundless Accusations.”
According to the Public Minister [chief prosecutor] Turco, “We have good cause to put on trial” Michele Giuttari, ex-head of the Investigative Group for Serial Killings (GIDES), which for years
investigated the Monster of Florence case, and the public minister of Perugia Giuliano Mignini, chief prosecutor in the investigation into the death of the Umbrian doctor Francesco Narducci.
The Florentine prosecutor’s office has charged the two with the crime of abuse of office and also has charged Mignini with obstruction of justice in favor of Giuttari.
Dr. Turco has termed the accused “two diametrically different persons.” Mignini, according to the accusations, was conducting a “crusade while in thrall to a sort of delirium.” One “ready to
defend himself to the extreme from any criticism of his investigation.”
Giuttari is alleged to have used this form of
delirium “to further his own vindictive interests beyond the bounds of his professional responsibilities.”
Hard words that have undone
Mignini (who today is also chief prosecutor in the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher.) “I contest this!” the Perugian magistrate said when he left the courtroom...
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#96216
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 8:25 p.m.
OT, sorry, but I've found more information about Steve Titus. This is from Witness for the Defense Elizabeth F. Loftus, Katherine Ketcham. Macmillan. pages 59-60.
On January 30, nineteen days before the trial [a lawsuit against the Port of Seattle], Steve Titus woke up in the morning, doubled over in pain...
When the paramedics arrived, Steve was in a coma. His heart had stopped...
On February 8, 1985, eleven days before he would have faced his tormentors in court, Steve Titus died. He was thirty-five years old.
On December 17, 1985,Steve Titus's estate was awarded a $2.8 million settlement from the Port of Seattle.
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#96218
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 8:32 p.m.
I hope the wheels of justice spin fast for Mignini in his own case. He should consider an early retirement. He is harming Perugia's international image.
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#96220
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 8:41 p.m.
Thank you Palmetto. That is an even dramatic ending to his story than I had thought.
Readers, yesterday we were talking about the theme of false accusation in literature (Graham Greene) and in real life (The Steve Titus case in Seattle). He was wrongly accused of rape and convicted. He was cleared but died four years later. The crime occurred on Port of Seattle land out by the airport and that's why Port police investigated instead of the usual cops. I think they were in over their heads. He lost his job and his reputation and his money of course.
He died only four years later, even though he was a young man. Evidently he couldn't get over the horror of being accused of rape.
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#96221
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/8/08 8:44 p.m.
Newsweek has linked to all six of my stories on the Amanda Knox case. They've already linked to Doug's interview. That makes me feel pretty cool.
I'm going to go have a glass of wine and read a novel tonight. Haven't decided which one. I hope you all have a great weekend. Thanks for hanging out with me.
http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Amanda+Knox
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#96234
Posted by funnycat at 2/8/08 9:10 p.m.
Bravo, Candace. It is good to see someone with gravitas weigh in on the side of the angels. The string of positive comments is unprecedented on this topic. A wave is gathering to wash away the evil that some do in Perugia. I can't fathom why the citizens of Perugia don't do something about their prosecutor, a few bad apples in the police department, and the judge in this case. They are behaving like bullies, and they will begin to feel the sting of public opinion running against them, and perhaps they will tremble as all bullies do when someone strikes back. As the parents of the Duke boys said, this time they have picked on the wrong families. Funnycat
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#96237
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 9:17 p.m.
I read that Doug loved his house in Italy. It was a pity he had to flee. I wonder if the charges against him will disappear once Mignini is gone.
Also, is the Florentine prosecutor superior to Mignini, or is the case such that Mignini committed his crimes within the Florentine jurisdiction?
Congrats on the Newsweek hook-up. They should feel cooler now too, because they've certainly boosted their level of journalism with the inclusion of your links.
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#96239
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 9:34 p.m.
#96227
How can you possible use that as evidence when you don't know the whole quote, or the context in which it was said? That "evidence" is hardly talked about anymore - clearly indicated it's not actually going to hold up as evidence. It was very clearly taken out of context, or you would have seen what was said before and after it.
Enough of that -
Candance, thank you for this article! Bravo!
Doug Preston, thank you so much! Finally some sense, finally something rational is being said! About time! Thank you so so much!
About the case:
Rudy is guilty, Amanda and Raffaele are innocent.
Free Amanda and Raffaele!!!!
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#96244
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 9:46 p.m.
I googled Doug Preston a little bit. He has written both non-fiction and fiction and is highly regarded. He has written for prestigious magazines.
Then I see his new novel (not the non-fiction Monster of Florence which I think isn't out yet) but a novel. It's called BLASPHEMY. It's in the top ten of the New York Times Bestseller and is getting raves.
Maybe if he writes about this case he can call it HERESY: Defending Amanda. Thanks for the interview Candace and thanks to Mr. Preston.
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#96252
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 10:17 p.m.
If you decide to take sides on this matter and be the judge based on impartial/media-fed evidence, I think you should try to keep an open mind in the least. Statements like "I looked at him and said right away, "This guy is not a killer. Are you kidding me?"" are not worth being said/quoted/posted. This whole piece and previous I've seen are trying to convince the readers that Amanda is innocent. I don't believe that but the fact of the matter is I don't know and neither does the author of this blog. Who really knows? Why not let justice take its course? The italians might do just fine in figuring out the truth..
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#96254
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 10:23 p.m.
"The italians might do just fine in figuring out the truth.."
If only we'd let them....
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#96258
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 10:31 p.m.
#96252
The italians might do just fine in figuring out the truth..
Most of the Italians have probably already figured out the truth. If they speak up, they risk becoming victims of Mignini's delirium.
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#96260
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 10:39 p.m.
Re: Why not let justice take its course?
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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#96261
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 10:39 p.m.
The foreign press is in no hurry to see justice done. This case, with Mignini's help, has generated some blockbuster headlines. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the prosecutors accepted payment for their leaks, as with the mysteriously copyrighted crime scene photos.
There'd be no money in reporting the crime factually. As Mr. Preston stated, this was a simple rape and murder.
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#96263
Posted by unregistered user at 2/8/08 10:48 p.m.
Would you be surprised to know, Palmetto, that the detective who is also being prosecuted in the Monster case --wrote a book on the case-- with the great Satanic cult front and center? I guess Preston and Spezi were competition.
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#96273
Posted by Palmetto at 2/8/08 11:20 p.m.
Would you be surprised to know, Palmetto, that the detective who is also being prosecuted in the Monster case --wrote a book on the case-- with the great Satanic cult front and center? I guess Preston and Spezi were competition.
Doesn't that take the cake? I think that person (Giuttari?) has already lost his job. Mignini should have toned down his act, but I suppose he felt invincible. I hope Spezi will be safe. It was laughable that a common doorstop was considered evidence of his involvement in the satanic cult.
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#96287
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 12:16 a.m.
Preston's publisher, Ornella Robbiati of RCS Libri, says she's not happy about the situation and doesn't want to be involved. ''Journalist Spezi and [the] main police investigator hate each other," says Robbiati, whose publishing company is Italy's largest. ''Why? I don't know. It's a complicated matter, this Monster of Florence. If they [Preston and Spezi] think they have discovered something useful to police and law, they should say something without insulting police and judges -- but it sounds too personal in my opinion, now."
More at:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/03/18/trapped_in_his_own_thriller/
_________________
"Sell Crazy Someplace Else. We're all stocked up here."
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#96288
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 12:19 a.m.
The case is one of the longest, most expensive criminal investigations in Italian history. In ''Dolci Colline di Sangue" (''Sweet Bloody Hills"), which will be published in Italy next month, Preston and his Italian coauthor, crime journalist Mario Spezi, criticize Mignini for the way he is running the Monster of Florence investigation. According to Preston, Mignini believes the killings were the work of a Satanic sect, dating to the Middle Ages, that needed female body parts as offerings to the devil in Black Masses. Preston and Spezi think this theory is hogwash and have said so. Preston says Spezi, who covered the crimes during the '80s, is also being investigated for a murder the police believe is related to the case, as a way to intimidate him.
In 2004 Spezi appeared on Italian television and ridiculed Mignini's investigation. Shortly after, on Nov. 18, police showed up at Spezi's apartment in Florence at 6 in the morning and seized his papers, computer, and the book manuscript. The search warrant, signed by Mignini, stated that Spezi was under investigation for 18 crimes labeled ''A" through ''R," all unspecified and listed as ''segreto" (''secret"). According to Preston, Spezi has never been told what these crimes are.
In response, Preston contacted PEN International, a writers association whose mission includes fighting intimidation of journalists. In January 2005, after an investigation by PEN's London office, Sara Whyatt, program director for PEN's Writers in Prison Committee, sent Mignini and the Italian prosecutor a letter of protest on behalf of Spezi. After that, the police returned much of the coauthors' material, and Preston and Spezi finished the book.
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#96372
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/9/08 10:24 a.m.
Readers,
I'm closing the comments box down when I turn in at night and re-opening it in the morning. I'm on PST, aka West Coast time (in the U.S.).
If you see the box is closed, do not worry. I will unlock it in the morning.
My goal is to eliminate spam and spend more time writing and less time removing rude and obscene remarks.
BTW, the numbering system is bizarre. I have no idea how it works. So if you see a big gap in between posts, that doesn't necessarily mean anything was removed.
I hope you enjoy Doug Preston's article. It's an honor to have his comments on my blog.
Candace
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#96384
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 11:12 a.m.
What a breath of sanity in this crazy case. Douglas Preston's interview was excellent and I hope that finally the tide of public opinion will begin to turn after the shellacking from the sleazy paparazzi. Mignini is a frightening man in a position to indulge his bizarre fantasies at the expense of the personal freedom of his victims. The real truth will prove to be stranger than all his theories, if and when he finally comes to trial himself.
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#96410
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 12:32 p.m.
I studied in Perugia at the Universita degli Stranieri in 1957, and I have the fondest memories of the time I spent there and the many friends I made. When I read of the murders in Perugia and the alleged role of a Seattleite, I was quite shocked and revolted.
After reading the report by Doug Preston, I was surprised to learn that the judge is not playing a neutral role but is actively involved as a prosecutor. The comments about the behavior of Judge Giuliano Mignini toward Mr. Preston is equally disturbing, and clearly indicates prosecutorial misconduct.
Equally chilling are the comments about Satanic conspiracies, as there have been many destructive beliefs held by individuals in America about Satanic cults. One might also read about the Wenatchee child sex abuse accusation in the 1990s, which as a result of prosecutorial zeal had devastating effects and resulted in damages paid by the local governments.
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#96440
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 2:42 p.m.
I hope the justice will find the truth. Only this explanation is too simple... how about the non-existence of fingerprints of A. Knox in the cottage? Why would Sollecito buy two times in the morning... bleach? Who knew R. Guede, Knox oder Kercher? And why? How come he in the cottage? Did Knox call the police? And was Knox shattered because of the crime? What about DNA of Sollecito in the bra of Kercher? What about the narration of rape in the Web site of Kercher?
Yes of course Kercher and Sollecito are innocent until the probe of guilty, but so is Guede too ( the three state their innocence too). I think the three are guilty, but it's to the justice to probe that. And not to a writter. But sure he would sell a couple of books more...
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#96459
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 3:36 p.m.
I really can't see how Mr. Preston, nor anyone else impartial to the matter, could come to the conclusion that Amanda and Rafaella are completely innocent. Come on, innocent based on their looks? Are you kidding ?!! Their alibies and account of their whereabouts that evening don't hold up with the hard evidence. I would say that the Italians are doing the right thing by keeping them jailed.
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#96480
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 4:07 p.m.
Let me see...a "troll" is someone who thinks they know Amanda Knox is guilty, and says hateful things about her;
an "angel" is someone who thinks they know Amanda Knox is innocent, and says only nice things about her.
What do you call those of us who don't know how to feel yet, but think it really matters that what happened be impartially investigated, because for all we know Amanda might or might not have participated in Meredith's murder? Because we don't know, have no way of knowing, whether or not she's innocent or guilty in this crime.
I agree that Amanda deserves the full protection of due process, and think it's abusive to vilify her, and whether she's guilty or innocent she's a human being in a difficult place. And of course, if someone alleges that the prosecutor is acting improperly in her case, that needs to be investigated.
But I have yet to hear a persuasive explanation of some of the evidence against Knox--which, of course, might or might not be accurately given in the press. I would love to be persuaded, so please, you angels, persuade me!
For example, if Knox had contact with Rudy Guede before and after the murder, that's one very serious piece of evidence which hasn't been addressed by her defenders.
Then there are accounts of Amanda's personality and behavior, including an anecdote Charles Mudede just recently reported in an article in the Stranger, which do not emerge from a prosecutor's office or from anyone with an obvious reason for lying, and these too are evidence of a kind. And what about the Albanian witness?
I think it's possible to be a decent person and still have doubts about Knox's innocence, and am puzzled by why it seems necessary to say this.
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#96511
Posted by Russ Wellen at 2/9/08 4:59 p.m.
There's such a thing as over-simplifying the case. The judge may be making things too complicated, but, for a crime writer, Preston's view is almost childlike.
Also, he seems to have some kind of vested interest in seeing AK as a good girl. If he wanted to be taken more seriously, he shouldn't have been so subjective in his assessment of her character.
He's neither asked about nor addresses what I find to be the single most disturbing aspect of the case. . . Why did AK and Guede allegedly talk on their cell phones before and after the crime?
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#96519
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 5:13 p.m.
But that's the point - they ALLEGEDLY talked. I will not believe they spoke on their cell phones to eachother until I see the records - the police have also said that Raffaele and Amanda both had their phones off all night. Then they said Amanda and Rudy spoke to eachother on the phone that same night...so why should I believe either story? I don't - I have heard of Magnini before, and have started looking into him. I cannot believe he still has any power - it's horrible. The police have given two different stories about the cell phones - so I won't believe either of them until I see phone records.
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#96530
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/9/08 5:30 p.m.
96480
When I talk of trolls, I do not mean people like you. I can see that you disagree with much of what Doug says but you have reasons other than hatred of ... what I don't know. You have not made up "facts" or wildly exaggerated what few facts we have to work with.
You have also not insulted him or me nor threatened to kill either one of us. That is new and refreshing.
As far as Charles Muede's story goes, he talked to one person who didn't like Knox in Seattle because he spoke to her once at work and she made a joke that he considered rude. Happens.
Now she may have said something stupid. I wasn't there, so I'm not going to judge. But that hardly makes her a murderer.
I make stupid remarks too. We all do. That doesn't make us more or less likely to kill.
Instead of rude remarks, we should be looking for a record of violent behavior. No one has ever come forward to say they were afraid of Knox. That she's an angry person. Quite the contrary.
So I guess I'm a little confused by your puzzlement. Where on the Web do you find any support for her innocence, except one 20/20 show? Try googling her name. If you were her mother, would you like what you see? Would you be optimistic about her getting a fair trial?
She's supposed to be presumed innocent. So why is it the angels who need to persuade you? It should be the other way around.
Why are you starting from the presumption of guilt and asking us to bring you over to the other side?
Of course you can be a decent person and have doubts about her innocence. You certainly sound like a decent person to me.
The thing is, I've already written six articles about the case. I'm a journalist. That's what I do. Readers have to make up their own minds.
Anyway, thanks for your thoughtful response. I appreciate it.
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#96535
Posted by Russ Wellen at 2/9/08 5:43 p.m.
Ms. Dempsey, I have been following this case closely. Your work has been invaluable. I find Mr. Preston's, as I alluded to in a comment above, much less so.
What possessed a reporter to say:
"To me, she seems like a very nice girl. A really kind, wonderful girl. . .
"He [Sollecito] seems like a perfectly normal nice Italian boy. . . . He looks like a fine upstanding Italian ragazzo."
Whatever possessed Preston to talk like that? Despite his impressive record, the author's lack of any pretense to objectivity undermines his credibility, at least in this case.
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#96537
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/9/08 5:49 p.m.
Russ, thanks for the compliment! You have made me a happy person today.
I cannot speak for Doug, but I think he is convinced that the boyfriend was not at the house that day, so he hasn't felt the need to probe deeply into his personality. Also, I believe he has looked at Sollecito's writings and his social networking pages and found nothing alarming.
Personally, I've always found the boyfriend fascinating because he says so little and Pappa says so much. His face is so bland that we can read anything into it at any possible moment. And of course there's his resemblance to Harry Potter. It's quite remarkable.
Thanks for stopping by.
Candace
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#96538
Posted by Russ Wellen at 2/9/08 6:03 p.m.
Thanks, Candace!
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#96574
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/9/08 7:08 p.m.
Readers,
Frank of Perugia Shock is reporting that police have re-questioned Meredith's Erasmus friends, who are now studying in Northern Italy. Frank is not too impressed by this:
"The case is complicated, it certainly can't be solved by taking into account what Meredith's girlfriends and house mates have been chatting about in the questura waiting room or in the Perugia's piazza.
We better count on the electronic microscope. That one is reliable. And doesn't have opinions or memory."
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7877520352483689941&postID=8690378459315207082
**************
For comic relief, here is my all-time favorite Frankism. He's talking about whether or not the famous disappearing shoe print was Sollecito's. It's a classic!
"Given that the shoe print seems not clear enough to identify that particular personal shoe but only that kind of shoes, we should say that it only proofs what shoe was there but not who was the foot inside."
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#96598
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 7:56 p.m.
I do think it's a bit naive to assume that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent based on the fact that they come from "good families" - what about the Zantop murders near Dartmouth of some years ago? Those guys appear to have had relatively normal families, whose members were completely shocked after the murders.
I just finished reading a true crime book, Murder in Room 103, about an American student killed while studying abroad in Korea. A fellow American, Kenzi Snider, eventually confessed but then recanted, and the case was dismissed by the Koreans. After reading the book I still had no idea whether she was truly innocent or not. So the truth is, despite people making such definitive pronouncements on all sides, we just can't know exactly what really happened in Perugia!
We may never know for sure.
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#96610
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 8:18 p.m.
I do think it's a bit naive to assume that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent based on the fact that they come from "good families"
I thought they might be innocent because there is no evidence against them.
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#96683
Posted by unregistered user at 2/9/08 11:07 p.m.
Trial by Prosecutorial Leaks
When considering the information provided by Doug Preston, one would do well to review the situation of the Muslim and Indian Dr. Mohamed Haneef, who was arrested in Australia and linked to terrorist bombings in London.
I recall the newscasts about this doctor and some of the comments made. For example, that he had bought only a one way ticket to India from Australia. His attorney, Stephen Keim, knew from police transcripts that he had provided detailed explanation of the one way ticket The incomplete release by the police resulted in Dr. Haneef being tried and convicted by the press.
His lawyer violated the laws by providing the while transcript to the press, and then revealed that he was the source. Charges were dropped against Dr. Haneef, who was nevertheless expelled from the country. The Australian Federal Police filed charges against him for releasing the transcript. The courts decided not to prosecute Mr. Keim. They also reversed the deportation of Mr. Haneef.
So remember, what you are reading may be due to dissembling by the police and not represent the whole truth.
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#96698
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 12:32 a.m.
96683. Yes, I have read about the Dr. Mohamed Haneef case. There was a dramatic story about it in the NYT recently. My husband is a lawyer and he showed it to me.
In this Australian case Dr. Haneef was suspected of cooperating with the terrorist who caused the Glasgow bombings.
It reminds me a bit of the Knox case because it shows what can happen when a suspect acquires an unreliable reputation. Then every move the suspect makes after that is, well, suspect.
All of the actions that Dr. Haneef took below turned out to be innocent, but he paid a very heavy price for them:
"In leaks to the media, in sealed affidavits and in court statements, the Australian police and prosecutors painted a dark picture of Dr. Haneef. They said that he had had suspicious financial dealings with one of the bombing suspects and that his personal cellphone SIM card had been found in the Jeep Cherokee that had ignited at the Glasgow airport.
Perhaps most damningly, even though his wife had given birth in India on June 26, they said Dr. Haneef did not seek to join her there until July 2, the day after the police in Britain had begun rounding up suspects. And his airplane ticket was a one-way ticket at that."
http://tinyurl.com/2lnelq
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#96708
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 12:54 a.m.
I am concerned about Mr. Preston's treatment at the hands of Mr. Mignini, in a case where it seems that Mignini was up against the opinion of all other elements of the investigative and judicial authorities, who had a common opinion on the simplicity of the Monster of Florence case.
First of all, there is no need to doubt Preston's first-hand word. Secondly, PEN decided to back him on it.
Regarding the Perugia case, apart from Preston's concern about Mignini leading the prosecution, I think we should assume that, like in the Monster of Florence case, the other elements of the investigation are working more or less normally. And that until there is a presentation of police evidence before a trial judge (not leaks and rumours either from the prosecution or the defense lawyers), it is difficult for anyone to form an opinion.
Doug Preston: "There is no conspiracy here. In real life, murders are banal and obvious. This case is no different than any other. I have seen the photos. This was a typical rape and murder scene."
I've seen the photos too. From the photos we don't know who was involved.
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#96754
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:04 a.m.
Quote: "thought they might be innocent because there is no evidence against them."
I agree 96610. And so much condemning evidence against Guede.
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#96760
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:25 a.m.
"I thought they might be innocent because there is no evidence against them."
I don't see how anyone who isn't privy to the details of the investigation can say absolutely that there is no evidence against them, based on newspaper reports along. There may not be, but how do you know? You can make all the pronouncements you want, but the fact is that you're just going to have to wait for the process to play out.
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#96895
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 11:06 a.m.
96760. In response to "but the fact is that you're just going to have to wait for the process to play out."
That would be much easier to do if the suspects weren't under lock and key for a year without any charges being filed.
If I were the person jailed, I wouldn't just accept my fate. I would fight back with everything I had in me. So would my family and friends. That's what happened in the Duke rape case.
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#96899
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 11:13 a.m.
Interesting comment about EU law. Overzealous prosecution is of course not a EU invention. We have had several questionable prosecutions in the US in "high profile" cases where prosecutors have literally made up the evidence. What exposes these corrupt practices is the press. Even the 48 hours, 20/20 shows and often newspaper and book writers.
In high profile cases elected or paid prosecutors play to the crowd because it is in their interest or it frees their natural "prosecutorial" tendencies.
The press needs to balance these tendencies and this is why I appreciated hearing from Doug Preston who has so much familiarity with both crime cases and the Italian process.
I think the US press has fallen down on this story except for some notable exceptions (like here). The Italian press, well, they should be charged a monthly fee by the suspects for providing free entertainment content. I have read a ton of Italian press and it is rarely anything more than Britney Spears-esque crap. Lead story yesterday: Amanda Sings Let It Be in prison.
This is a real murder and I do think the murderer is likely in custody but I also notice after the months of twisting the McCanns in the wind, calling them prime suspects etc. the Portugese police have reported they do not have a shred of evidence against them. The chief cop in Portugal has stated they blew it.
Preston has provided some context and this ludicrous press/prosecutor matrix and the fact is one day there will likely be a little blurd in the paper about how two of the suspects in the Meredith Kercher murder have been released for lack of evidence or if the prosecutor actually charges them that the evidence is not sufficient for another Italian judge to buy in to the "theory".
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#96908
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 11:35 a.m.
96899
I know a family in Seattle whose daughter was stabbed to death in their own back yard. One of the first people the police focused on as a suspect was her own father. This was many, many years ago and the case has never been solved.
Can you imagine what it must be like to have to deal with the grief of losing a daughter and be treated as the possible perpetrator of the crime? And yet, statistics tell us that most homicide victims know their killer, that often the first person on the scene of the crime is in fact the killer and so on.
The police in every country are aware of these statistics and have factor them in. There are in fact cases of missing persons who turn out to have been "disappeared" by someone close to them. I don't think this is the case for the McCann's, but investigators have to consider this possibility before excluding it. That's their job. And if true, how noble that the police have had the grace and honesty to say they blew it. That happens too. The world is not perfect.
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#96956
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 1:58 p.m.
Candace, in response to the blog entry on EU law in comment #96739: I'm not sure why you found this important enough to refer to, because it really is just some uninformed rambling by someone who probably wants to take any opportunity to lash out at the EU. Xenophobia about mainland Europe is very strong among a certain section of the British population, but fortunately most people here (I'm from the continent, but live in the UK, and I'm also a lawyer) have some more sense.
First of all, his use of the phrase "EU law" is erroneous. EU law is the law of the European Union and really mostly covers everything that is necessary to turn it into a free market. Recently, some ventures have been made into collaboration in criminal law affairs, but it remains very limited. EU law has nothing to do with what the writer of the blog entry is objecting against; he or she is rather lashing out on the laws of continental Europe in general.
Criminal procedure in mainland Europe does indeed come from a different tradition than it does in the UK and the US, especially in the investigation stage, and some things may seem a bit strange to Americans (and Britons) unfamiliar with how it works and this is reflected in comments whenever a high-profile case involving Americans is discussed – not only this one, but also for example the Natalee Holloway case (it's interesting though that in both cases there are reasons to distrust the lead prosecutor). One example is the difference between being held under suspicion and being charged, which seems to elude the writer of that blog.
However, these differences do not mean that law on mainland Europe is "focused on collectivism and state domination, not on the right of the individual". This is rubbish. All European states have provisions in their constitutions protecting fundamental civil rights, including the right not to be held without charge and prohibitions of arbitrary detention, which was directly inspired by the Magna Carta. All European states are also party to the European Convention on Human Rights, which safeguards these rights as well in Article 5. This means that the Italian state can and will be held accountable in case it turns out that Amanda is held for too long with for no good reason. However, there seems to be enough reason now for a judge to be convinced that she should be kept detained and under suspicion.
If Doug Preston is even half right, Amanda may very well one day end up at the European Court of Human Rights winning a case against Italy if the Italian authorities really make a mess of things. But for now we do not know, and she may still be involved in some way with the murder of Meredith Kercher. In any case, there is no reason to link this case to some delusional idea of the end of Anglo-Saxon civilisation as we know it under the hands of a collectivist EU.
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#96967
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 2:45 p.m.
Thank you 96956. I hope your succinct explanation of what EU law is and is not will put an end to this tired discussion. Good general descriptions of EU law, as well as EU directives and how they get passed and then transposed into domestic legislation in EU countries are readily available, and are essential for a basic understanding of how Europe works and how it differs from the United States. Moreover, excellent descriptions of the justice systems in various EU member states also exist, and they can shed light on this particular case as well as many others. The media coverage may be easier to digest, but the other stuff is far more relevant to this and other cases and should be required reading for anyone who wants to venture out into the global world we now live in.
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#96972
Posted by Palmetto at 2/10/08 2:57 p.m.
OT, I apologize.
#96908
If you're thinking of the Diana Peterson case, it was solved, after 33 years.
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews
/2004087253_coldcase22m.html
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#96973
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 3:08 p.m.
96972
Actually, it has not been solved but a man named Groth was recently charged with the crime.
My point was about how the police in that case proceeded to narrow down the list of suspects and where they started.
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#96975
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 3:10 p.m.
96972
And I would add, in furtherance of my original point, that the currently charged suspect knew both the victim and her family.
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#96979
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 3:25 p.m.
96956. Thanks for explaining EU law.I am trying to learn all I can about the law in this case, both in relationship to Italy and EU.
I have deleted hat blog quote from another site, because you have brought up issues I didn't know about and I would not want to give readers a false impression.
I only meant to address a single issue: suspects being held without charges for up to a year.
Is this the same across Europe now or are there exceptions?
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#96986
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 3:55 p.m.
"Again in interest of fairness, I have a question that always fails to get answered, but never fails to get me banished.
And I am struck by a comment I saw on another blog. That comment said that "a source close to the family recruited a Vanity Fair writer to help with the ABC 20/20 piece."
'
Allow me to answer the comment of this reader. The Vanity Fair writer is Judy Bachrach. There is no dark secret her. Far from being 'recruited' by the family, she is a highly respected writer for Vanity Fair, who has written many award-winning articles, and who is working as an independent journalist on this case. Are you really so naive as to think Vanity Fair would hire a journalist "recruited" by someone to do a put-up job on behalf of the Knox family? She's one of the top magazine journalists in the country, you moron! This comment is representative of the intelligence and critical ability of the anti-Knox faction.
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#96993
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 4:15 p.m.
#96990
I am post #96989.I don't believe there is any conspiracy against Knox or Sollecito,neither I believe all the crap I have been reading about police corruption etc, for the reasons I explained above. I think AK and RS are not saying the truth. But honestly, I can't say that there is evidence against them, just a few traces of DNA that may be explained otherwise, and -perhaps-a witness who saw the 3 together the day before the murder.So what? I think that what police have now against AK and RS is just a strong suspicion that they have lied about their whereabouts. According to Italian law it is enough to keep them in custody for a certain amount of time.On April 1st, a judge will decide if the "evidence" is enough to keep them locked or not. Until then, it's only pure speculation.
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#96996
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 4:21 p.m.
96986-
Is that just a clever way of bringing that banished post back to the table?
Anyway, whether true or not I doubt that any recruiting of any writer is necessary now! Newspapers, magazines and books sell on the basis of buzz and interest for the topics they cover. This one will sell copy because it's hot right now. So writers are competing for a piece of it. They have to earn a living too.
Imagine if A is released in the next couple of months for lack of evidence. That would be great news for her and her family, and would generate a headline or two. But interest in her story would fade fairly fast, at least in this country, because there would no longer be a story other than the story of a few months behind bars in faraway Perugia. That would be of far less interest to the general public.
I think it would be far more useful if the story generated some interest in differences between various countries' legal systems and protections. Maybe insurance companies will begin to develop more extensive legal expense policies that cover beneficiaries who are jailed in foreign countries and defray some of the costs incurred by their parents in the case of young adults.
Finally, if this case does drag on and continue to sell copy, it would be nice if some of the money made were used to set up a memorial fund for Meredith Kercher. Her story seems to be in danger of being forgotten.
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#97001
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 4:26 p.m.
#96986. I would add: Journalists in the U.S. are not paid by P.R. agencies to write stories. That is a very clear conflict of interest and it is not tolerated.
I guess that's not so true in the U.K., otherwise we couldn't keep getting these ignorant questions.
And BTW, we could make a lot more money in P.R. than we do in journalism.
******
96993. Not trying to rip into you, but there is no proof that the 3 were seen together before the crime. All we have is a ridiculous tale by the so-called "Albanian witness." I have a bridge in NY to sell you, if you buy that.
If you were in jail, I doubt that you would be so "ah, well, this will all be sorted out in the courts." I have been "detained" on several occasions, in Amman, Jordon and Naples, Italy.
That was scary enough. I can't even imagine the horror of being behind bars. Every day would matter to me. Even more so, if my child was in prison.
This is why we have bail in the U.S., not to mention the right to a speedy trail. And you have to charge somebody with something before you detain them.
No, it's not a perfect system, But it sure beats sitting in jail while the police get a year to think about whether or not you've even done anything
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#97014
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 4:54 p.m.
#97001 - If you were in jail, I doubt that you would be so "ah, well, this will all be sorted out in the courts."
Which is exactly what makes it so difficult to understand why Amanda (and Raffaele too) have not, in over three months time, told a consistent, believable account of their whereabouts that night. Their "alibis," even taking into account the several variations, do not support one another. Does this make them murderers? No. But it certainly gives reason to hold them while more reliable evidence is sorted out.
I too think it is terrible if they are imprisoned but innocent. But really, if they are innocent, they are the ones that hold the keys to their own release: telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about what they were doing the night Meredith Kersher was killed.
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#97019
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:08 p.m.
#97014
You bring up some interesting points but I don't think anyone knows exactly what the suspects have told the police. Amanda said she never confessed and yet the police say they had a "confession" and the tabs ran with that every since.
Currently I am afraid the cat's in the bag and the bags in the river regarding the statements and the alibis.
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#97020
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:09 p.m.
#97015
In general, I agree that the evidence we have seen leaked is skimpy. BUT - if all those things are true rather than false....
which is why we must wait for due process.
I also, with all due respect, must say this one made me laugh out loud -
9)bleach receipts were found in raffaels house dated the morning of the murder - these were not bought by his cleaner.
probably coincidence that he cleaned his shoes that morning
Do you know anyone who cleans the soles of their shoes regularly, or even occasionally, with bleach?
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#97021
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:11 p.m.
well i should add that when raffele was initially sent to prison, he requested a bottle of bleach to clean his cell.
maybe this is just his thing, and that's all he has in common with the real murderer - that he uses bleach to clean stuff..
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#97023
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:14 p.m.
it could also be a cunning ploy to show that he is a clean guy who uses bleach frequently.
he could say "i even requested bleach when i was sent to prison"
but then i ask myself why are the bleach receipts dated the morning of the murder and at 8 in the morning!
especially as he said he slept till 10..
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#97026
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:20 p.m.
another curious thing that raffaele said about the dna on the knife - he claimed he cut meredith accidentally while cooking, yet he claims he didn't really know the victim and she had never been to his house.
are we to believe that he cooked a meal at the victims house with this knife, "pricked" her and brought the knife home?
also rafaels father dismissed his own sons claim..
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#97028
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:25 p.m.
another thing about the mixed blood.
if it was indeed menstrual blood from amanda - how did it get in the sink?
and how did her blood get on the box of cotton buds on the shelf.
it would seem someone was flicking her menstrual blood around the place - maybe to frame her - but where did they get her blood from and can we be sure it was menstrual blood, the prosecution claim it was from a nose-bleed that came from a struggle with the victim
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#97030
Posted by JorgeVasquez at 2/10/08 5:29 p.m.
It's a simple "rape and murder"?
uh, what about the fact that Meredith wasn't raped?
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#97031
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:34 p.m.
The defense has tried to dismiss this albanian witness - but he didn't need a visa, he was a legal immigrant, plus he had no previous run-in's with the law.
What is his motive for giving this false account of the night before?
It is very strange that he left it so long to come to the police, although he said he was scared he may be implicated. That is plausible I guess.
But then he said Rudy was present when Amanda threatened him with the knife - yet Rudy has an alibi he was with Spanish friends that night, or so his lawyers say. But is his alibi for the whole night? We know he sold marijuana and we know Amanda and Raffaele smoked it so it would make sense that they bought it from a local dealer.
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#97035
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:44 p.m.
While there are no clear signs of rape, no bruising on the body consistent with rape - is it not plausible that Meredith complied with the rapist, ie without a struggle.
After all there was a knife at her throat..
But the prosecution believe it was a staged rape, for example Rudys DNA was found using a vaginal swab - but it wasn't semen, it was skin cells from his fingers.
This is consistent with his account that they did not have sex.
So it remains unclear what happened in terms of rape anyway.
It would be foolish to claim one way or another
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#97036
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 5:56 p.m.
Yes you're right - Amanda never confessed at all.
In fact, when the investigation first began, the prosecution stated that the murderer must've been a man - given the force that was applied to the final cut.
However, we are getting into semantics really.
"confession" is the wrong word entirely.
The real issue is that Amanda did tell the police that she was present in the house the night of the murder - only to go back on her account.
I have personally read the transcripts from that particular interview/interrogation - and she definitely said she was present and heard the screams of the victim.
I don't believe anyone thinks Amanda is the murderer - not in their right mind anyway. However, the doubt that has been placed in peoples minds is whether she was there or not and exactly what was her involvement if any.
I guess we could say it was her "confession" to being present at the murder and not the murder itself.
I believe Amanda is innocent of murder, but she may be holding back on her boyfriend or Rudy for some reason.
As she said "this is the best version of the truth I am capable of telling.."
I'm not sure how much to read into that statement.
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#97037
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 5:56 p.m.
Readers,
I don't want to get into refuting things point by point, but please aim for accuracy. Amanda never confessed to killing Meredith. The so-called "false confession" is described above. It's question 11.
Jorge. The examiner evidently can't make up his mind whether this was rape, but I agree with Doug. In any case, this forum is not a useful place to discuss it. Meredith was murdered. We know that. So let's go back to that.
Also, everyone, let's please get back to the actual interview. There's plenty to talk about without bringing in every single leaked detail in the case. Although it is comical that "leaked" has now become synonymous with "true."
97031. It's not whether the Albanian witness is an immigrant or not. It's that his story is so far-fetched and so impossible to prove that it doesn't bear discussing. It's also off-topic.
I have kept the old threads up because of topics like that. You can go back and see previous discussions. They're actually quite fascinating to re-read.
97014. You sound like a nice person. In the previous thread we were talking about the plight of the falsely accused. In every case, the defendants did tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. They were not believed. The truth was not the key. People hammering the prosecution on their behalf did free them. The lucky ones I mean.
Also scroll back in this thread and read about the Australian case and the Steve Titus case. It could happen to you or me or somebody we really care about. That's why it matters.
Candace
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#97038
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 6:07 p.m.
97014. You sound like a nice person. In the previous thread we were talking about the plight of the falsely accused. In every case, the defendants did tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. They were not believed. The truth was not the key. People hammering the prosecution on their behalf did free them. The lucky ones I mean.
Also scroll back in this thread and read about the Australian case and the Steve Titus case. It could happen to you or me or somebody we really care about. That's why it matters.
Candace, I understand that sometimes people tell the truth and are still falsely accused. My point is that in this case, the person we are discussing, Amanda, has not, according to anything that has been released to the public, told a believable and verifiable account of what she was doing that night. The fact that she and her boyfriend haven't told the same story, given multiple opportunities, disturbs me. She has demonstrably not told the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This, of course, does not make her a murderer? But I have trouble arguing for her innocence when I can't point to a verifiable alibi. If she could do that, her situation would be very different.
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#97047
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 6:21 p.m.
97083
I understand what you're saying, but innocent people don't always have ironclad alibis. I spent last night watching videos with my husband. I had a glass of wine at some point. My sister called. I was going to watch Dr. Katz at one point but changed my mind. I think I actually switched it on but don't remember ... etc.
I do know we didn't kill anybody.
Steve Titus actually was on the phone when the police said the rape occurred, so they just moved the timetable back. That's why he eventually got more than $2 million dollars from them. He was already dead from the strain of defending himself.
Ak has told only two stories:
1. I wasn't there
2. I was there. I put my hands over my ears etc.
She didn't have a lawyer present when she said the second one. Go back to what Doug said. She was questioned for many hours. She has stuck with this story.
She's now in jail. She is not free to speak. Nor has she been charged with anything. I would not speak either if I were her.
In the end, you may not be convinced. Neither one of us is on the jury, so it probably doesn't matter.
Now, can I question you about what you did last night? (just kidding, couldn't resist). As I said, you are a nice person.
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#97048
Posted by Palmetto at 2/10/08 6:21 p.m.
I think, when the results of all the forensic testing is revealed, people will be astonished that Mignini has continued with the accusations against Sollecito and Amanda. I have a feeling there is much more damning evidence against Guede that will dissolve any suspicion against anyone else.
I wonder if Mignini realizes he's got a tiger by the tail.
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#97052
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 6:27 p.m.
Good point Candace. By the way did your husband get mad when you paused the video? Was it not getting to the good part?
Doug's interrogation by Mignini in your piece has a longer version that can be found on the web for those interested (just google doug preston arrested).
I couldn't tell you what I did last night and while thinking about it now I couldn't tell you if that was last night or the night before.
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#97057
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 6:38 p.m.
I wonder if Mignini realizes he's got a tiger by the tail.
I wonder if his problems from the Monster case did force him (along with the immense pressure to calm the 40,000 students in Perugia and their pocketbooks) to redouble his efforts. Maybe he is not Captain Queeg but in these high profile cases his theories are a little complicated.
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#97063
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 6:44 p.m.
97052. Thanks, I needed a laugh today. I've been predicting that my sense of humor might come back and I can actually feel it flickering.
I believe that I paused Dr. Katz because my husband showed no enthusiasm. See we're watching the Office (American version) so we'd already seen a couple of those. Dr. Katz was just too much for him at that point.
My sister called because I'm on her speed dial and she was actually trying to call somebody else. We both believe that nothing is coincidental, so had a nice long talk.
By that time I believe (but please don't cross-examine me) that my husband was in the next room on his computer playing elf bowling. He has a very stressful job and he likes to relax that way sometimes. He is also in a fantasy baseball league, but didn't do any trades last night because the season hasn't started.
I would hate to be cross-examined on any of this, because I did not jot down any notes or make a timeline. And that wine. I believe I had two glasses, now that I think about it. I'm already contradicting myself.
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#97067
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/10/08 6:49 p.m.
97057. I love the Captain Queeg reference. I adore the Caine Mutiny, both the book and the movie. I can never decide which is better. Thanks for bringing that up,
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#97101
Posted by lv2rgu at 2/10/08 9:04 p.m.
I know we're not supposed to rehash old news, but there are a couple of things from AK that I can't get past:
1. "This is the best version of the truth that I'm capable of thinking." (I've never heard anyone talk this way.)
2. "I can't lie. I was there."
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#97102
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 9:15 p.m.
Translated language.
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#97110
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 10:01 p.m.
97083
I understand what you're saying, but innocent people don't always have ironclad alibis. I spent last night watching videos with my husband. I had a glass of wine at some point. My sister called. I was going to watch Dr. Katz at one point but changed my mind. I think I actually switched it on but don't remember ... etc.
Candace,
And my point is that your husband and your sister could each easily verify your story. Their versions would corraborate yours - in the big picture as well as in many (though no doubt not all) details. Amanda's and Raffaele's stories don't do that and therein lies one of the major problems.
As for me, I was alone last night.
Can't think of anyone who can confirm that.... ; )
(But Amanda has never claimed that. Only Raffaele has.)
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#97113
Posted by unregistered user at 2/10/08 10:44 p.m.
97110-
You hit the nail on the head there.
Many people would like to believe but the current silence preceded by the inconsistent statements makes it really hard. Add in the attempts to blame the prosecutor, the police--in other words, do everything but be accountable for anything--and it all looks bad no matter how you try.
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#97124
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 12:43 a.m.
"Readers,
I don't want to get into refuting things point by point, but please aim for accuracy".
Candace does this mean that you will now delete all of Palmetto's postings as not only are they not accurate they are also libelous and inlflamatory... breaking the very rules that you have laid down...
He is allowed to continuously post without any interaction from you whilst you delete anybody else that merely hints that AK is guilty.
Please be consistant and you may actually gain some respect!
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#97128
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 12:58 a.m.
sted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 12:55 a.m.
Wilderwein. Please don't post graphic theories about Meredith's final hours on this blog. It's against the forum rules, because the PI is a family-oriented newspaper. So I have to delete it. You are an inventive guy. I got to hand you that.
97110. Yes, my sister could vouch for the call, but I can't prove any of the rest of it. You put my husband and me in separate rooms and we're going to be wildly inconsistent.
See, we didn't consider last night a big deal so didn't take notes or do timeline. Plus, we were really tired and might have dozed off during the Office. Oh, my God, I forgot to mention that the first time..
I'm sure that I would remember if I killed somebody last night. And even though you don't have any eyewitnesses, I believe you that you didn't either. Heck, for all I know, you were watching The Office too.
In any case, the police have to prove that I did the deed. I don't have to prove that I didn't. That's what it means to be innocent until proven guilty.
So far the police haven't even been able to prove that AK was even in the house that night. And her DNA isn't on the murder scene. So they need to work harder. It's the same in journalism. You have to have the goods or you can't do the story.
Mr. Titus, as discussed earlier, had a fantastic alibi and he still got convicted of rape. He was on phone when rape occurred. A friend came over immediately after that to watch TV with him and stayed for two or three hours. The jury didn't believe any of that. But it turned out to be true.
97113. I think it's sweet that you believe that a lot of people would like to believe. Where are these wonderful people? I would so like to meet them.
Then I wouldn't be getting so worried about the jury system. To be honest, my feelings about juries have been affected by my covering of this case. I don't think I want 12 people deciding my fate. I might want to stick with one honest judge.
******
love2rgu Whenever I hear the "I wasn't there" line, it just amuses me. We don't know what "there" means. It could be either the boyfriend's apartment or the cottage. Odd that the police only released that little snippet. No context.
The first rule of journalism is to always put things in context. You're a kid. You got this really great damning quote you want to use. And your editor will say, "Well, what's the context for that?" Damn. Half the time you can't use it.
You also have to call that person and find out what they meant by it. It just spoils all your fun.
So I'll just wait to hear what "there" means in court, when they will play the recording.
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#97130
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 1:08 a.m.
"love2rgu Whenever I hear the "I wasn't there" line, it just amuses me. We don't know what "there" means. It could be either the boyfriend's apartment or the cottage".
Interesting thing about this Candace, is that AK is now saying she was not at the cottage and RS says she was not with him....
Whichever way you look at it either she is lying or RS is lying (or both of them) and both of them are in jail pending further investigation into this case for this very reason....
A little bit of truth NOT context would go hell of a long way in this case......
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#97210
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 11:02 a.m.
Readers, as we closed down last night, an angry reader accused Palmetto of making libelous and untrue statements.
Because the string got long, I've deleted it and reposted the charges here. I'll respond, as the reader requested, having now had time to sleep.
Here are Palmetto statements that are said to be libelous and untrue.
Angry reader: The Italians might do just fine in figuring out the truth."
Palmetto: Most of the Italians have probably already figured out the truth. If they speak up, they risk becoming victims of Mignini's delirium".
Candace's reponse: This is opinion about a public figure. Since when is that libelous? Not only is the libel threshhold high for public figures, but we are obligated as citizens of a democracy to speak out when we see our officials running amok. They work for us, remember?
The "delirium" part was not said by Palmetto but by an officer of the Italian court, where Prosecutor Mignini is being tried for abuse of office (while, hard as this is to believe, simultaneously trying the Kercher murder case.)
The "fearing to be a victim" part is also true. When Doug Preston's co-author, Mario Spezi, started looking into the Monster of Florence case, Mignini threw him into Capanne Prison and accused him of being the Monster of Florence himself. Spezi has since been freed.
*******
Here is the second exchange.
Angry reader: Would you be surprised to know, Palmetto, that the detective who is also being prosecuted in the Monster case --wrote a book on the case-- with the great Satanic cult front and center? I guess Preston and Spezi were competition.
Palmetto:
Doesn't that take the cake? I think that person (Giuttari?) has already lost his job. Mignini should have toned down his act, but I suppose he felt invincible. I hope Spezi will be safe. It was laughable that a common doorstop was considered evidence of his involvement in the satanic cult.
Candace's reponse. Palmetto is also right here. Michele Guittarri, head detective in the Monster of Florence case, is also in hot legal water. Spezi was thrown into jail because police seized a doorstop from his home. Mignini did accuse him of involvement in a satanic cult.
I posted some information on the charges against Mignini and Guitarri earlier. Here it is again. I think that will answer all of angry reader's questions.
I put it into context this way:
For those who wanted to know more about the charges against Giulano Mignini, the prosecutor in the Monster of Florence and now in the Meredith Kercher case, here is a story from Nov. 9 on the charges against him and Michele Guitarri, the chief detective in the Monster of Florence case.
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2006/11_Novembre/09/firenze.shtml
Here are the players in this controversy:
1. Giulano Mignini, chief prosecutor of the Monster of Florence case. Now chief prosecutor of the Meredith Kercher case. In both cases he has advanced extremely fanciful, complicated theories of the case with dark sexual undertones.
2. Michele Giuttari. ex-head of the Investigative Group for Serial kills (GIDES). He is in hot water for his performance in the Monster of Florence case. He is not part of the Meredith Kercher team.
Here are some graphs that Doug Preston translated for me from the Jan. 17 article that I mentioned in his interview.
From Corriere della Sera
January 17, 2008
Yesterday, the first round in the Monster case
Preliminary Hearing for Giuttari and Mignini
The ex-Head of Gides: "Groundless Accusations."
According to the Public Minister [chief prosecutor] Turco, "We have good cause to put on trial Michele Giuttari, ex-head of the Investigative Group for Serial Killings (GIDES), which for years
investigated the Monster of Florence case, and the public minister of Perugia Giuliano Mignini, chief prosecutor in the investigation into the death of the Umbrian doctor Francesco Narducci.
The Florentine prosecutoror's office has charged the two with the crime of abuse of office and also has charged Mignini with obstruction of justice in favor of Giuttari.
Dr. Turco has termed the accused "two diametrically different persons." Mignini, according to the accusations, was conducting a "crusade while in thrall to a sort of delirium." One all too ready to
defend himself to the extreme from any criticism of his investigation."
Giuttari is alleged to have used this form of
delirium further his own vindictive interests beyond the bounds of his professional responsibilities.
Hard words that have undone
Mignini (who today is also chief prosecutor in the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher. "I'll contest this!" the Perugian magistrate said when he left the courtroom..
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#97217
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:27 a.m.
Bet you feel like you just put together an anti-SLAPP brief. Thanks for taking the time to pull all that together.
Here is a brief piece from the Atlantic Monthly: a Q&A after Preston's article in The Atlantic Monthly a year and a half ago.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200606u/preston-interview
He makes it clear he doesn't think Mignini is a bad man and proposes some reasons why Mignini's theory looks the way it does. There are also several comments --which to the followers of this case-- sound like "deja vu all over again".
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#97225
Posted by Douglas Preston at 2/11/08 11:57 a.m.
In the Monster of Florence case, as in the Kercher case, an enormous amount of "evidence" was leaked to the press by prosecutors. Most of this evidence later turned out to be false. Some of evidence was shown to be planted, some was deliberately falsified, and a lot of it was completely mischaracterized or misconstrued by prosecutors. One of the chief inspectors who worked closely with Mignini was convicted of making false statements and indicted for doctoring the transcript of an interrogation.
Because of prosecutorial abuse, a clearly innocent man, Pietro Pacciani, was convicted of being the Monster of Florence. This conviction was later reversed on appeal, with the appeals prosecutor himself declaring Pacciani to be innocent, flabbergasting the court and flooring Pacciani's defense lawyers! This same prosecutor, Piero Tony, said that the original investigation was so dysfunctional that it "brought to mind the Pink Panther." Right now, another innocent man is on trial for being the Monster of Florence, using another mountain of false and twisted evidence. He is also heading for a sure acquittal.
I would please ask your readers to be skeptical of what they read in the papers. So many of the postings here treat the "facts" as reported in the news as the gospel truth. Most U.S. papers, including the PI and the Seattle Times, are merely rewriting what the Italian papers print, and most of that comes straight out of the prosecutor's office. If Seattle, a great city, had a newspaper worthy of it, then you might have been treated to some real reporting on this story. Unfortunately, the PI and Times have hired stringers in Italy who have more or less repackaged the Italian press without digging deeper.
I don't know why some people have such a raging thirst to believe Amanda Knox is guilty and attack anyone who suggests otherwise. It's a disturbing phenomenon. The internet is replacing the mob with the burning torches.
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#97233
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 12:28 p.m.
97225-
At least you have some experience of the Italian judicial system. Many people have been upset, and rightly so, by the vicious attacks on Italy and its institutions by people who have no more knowledge of them than most of us have of Amanda Knox or the other two suspects.
You may also be aware that many people were offended by your remarks about the intelligence of the British and the incompetence of the Italians. These are the kinds of statements that push people's buttons, and that have only allowed this matter to escalate into a game of global pot shots. I was surprised and dismayed that you would go on record with such statements.
More disturbing still were your comments that the two suspects from "good families" could not have been involved, and that you could just tell by looking at Sollecito that he was innocent. Off the record, I can understand making this kind of statement, although if it were said within my earshot I would react forcefully. People from all walks of life are capable of lying, cheating and bad judgement, not to mention more serious crimes. Murder, rape and robbery are not unknown among the better families, regardless of what someone looks like.
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#97246
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 12:56 p.m.
Readers,
Some of you have been hammering me about the supposed calls from Guede to Amanda before and after the murders. I am not going to ask him to address every bit of evidence in this case, but those calls keep coming up, so I did ask him to address that issue.
So here is Doug Preston's answer. I've also added it to the story above.
As for the calls that Amanda and Guede supposedly exchanged, this is another "damning" piece of evidence leaked by the prosecutor's office that I would ask readers to treat with great skepticism.
This detail, for example, contradicts other information, also apparently released by the prosecutor's office, that Amanda and her boyfriend turned off their cell phones at 8:00 p.m.
Look through all the evidence leaked to the press and you will find many contradictions like this. As one distinguished judge said in the Monster of Florence case: "Half a clue plus half a clue does not equal a whole clue: it equals nothing!"
The prosecutor decided Knox was guilty and is now collecting the evidence against her, which, like the above, are all half-clues, carefully cherry-picked from the mass of evidence. This is not how a proper criminal investigation should proceed, as any homicide detective in the United States would tell you.
One other detail that American readers might like to know: in Italy, prosecutors are firmly in charge. They tell the police what to look for, where to go, what evidence to analyze, what evidence not to analyze. In America, the police work independently and are specifically trained in evidence gathering and criminal investigation.
In Italy, the police must do what the prosecutor tells them. As a result, many criminal investigations in Italy are botched by prosecutors who are judges, trained in the law, who have no background in criminal investigation, police work, or forensic science.
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#97255
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 1:03 p.m.
Curious what Doug feels about Steve Van Zandt, former FBI profiler who went to Perugia for Dateline. He felt the Italian police had a case and were good cops. I wondered how a writer of crime fiction felt about a former profiler's findings.
Thanks much.
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#97258
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 1:08 p.m.
lol.
Make that ~Clint~ Van Zandt. Music on the brain, I suppose...
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#97269
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 1:28 p.m.
For the time being, the Kercher family and their lawyer have expressed their faith in the Italian judicial system. Maybe before we condemn the process based on our own cultural norms, we should wait and see what it produces. It seems that all this protesting now, before we have seen the evidence or lack thereof, runs the risk of creating additional interference in what is already a complicated matter. The victim's family has the right to see this matter investigated and has not said one word to date on the supposed corruption of the prosecutor, the system, the Italians, etc.
At the end of the day, and whether we like it or not, this crime was committed on Italian soil and is being investigated there. The system has strengths and weaknesses, like any other. Before we rush to judgement about whether or not the investigation has been botched, shouldn't we at least see what comes out of it?
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#97288
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 2:29 p.m.
former FBI profiler
You seem to think a profiler is a notch above a crime writer but I think if you looked carefully you would realize they both have the same batting average in crime solving.
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#97292
Posted by Douglas Preston at 2/11/08 2:36 p.m.
To 97233:
Your characterizations of what I said are inaccurate. I did not attack the intelligence of the British nor have I called the Italians incompetent. I find a large proportion of the postings by U.K. citizens on this blog to be vacuous, angry, and anti-American. So don't get your knickers in a twist, mate.
I lived in Italy for many years. I speak, read and write Italian and I partly raised my children in Italy. I love the country. The incompetence I speak of is confined to one Italian in particular, Giuliano Mignini, the prosecutor in the Kercher case. Many of Mignini's own colleagues have publicly condemned him. He is under indictment and on trial for abuse of office. A distinguished Florentine judge, Luca Turco, was quoted in the Corriere della Sera saying that Mignini suffered from "delirium". A few weeks ago, an Italian lawyer called one of Mignini's investigations "so much waste-paper."
As far as the comments I made about Sollecito and Knox being from good families, allow me to elaborate. I'm not talking about their appearance; I am referring to their backgrounds, their family histories, and their previous behavior. It is extremely rare for a person who grew up in a normal family and who never showed any signs of criminal or abnormal behavior to suddenly and without warning commit a horrific, sadistic murder. That is the point I was making.
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#97303
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 3:23 p.m.
#97297
Again, the Kercher family has expressed their faith in the process and the investigation.
Since you brought it up, her mother's statement was not quite an approval of the investigation. It can be read more ways than one.
"We are putting our faith in Italian justice but who knows what the result will be. We have no choice."
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=
/news/2007/12/04/wmeredith104.xml
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#97305
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:26 p.m.
97297 - You will find the following statement remains in the article above:
"I would urge your outraged readers, especially those shrill ones from the U.K., to calm themselves down and try to exercise what little critical faculties they possess."
And, after reading your post, I agree with Mr. Preston's statement :)
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#97309
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:36 p.m.
Questión for Douglas Preston. In the interview you stated "Amanda had absolutely nothing to do with the murder." Do you think that Amanda had anything to do with any other event (prior or posterior) to and related to the murder? Do you think she has information which could be useful to understanding what happened? If she does, do you think that morally she should offer this information, even if legally she has the right (in Italy as in the States) to not testify against herself?
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#97311
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:38 p.m.
finally.....
for months i've commented that the police of perusia were just a pack of keystone cops.
i had left these blogs because of the trolls. how can you make a point when trolls pull comment and quotes out of a thin air or even worse some of the tabloids.
i've argued that this case would be a lot more dull than most of these people would like to think.
i pointed out that a good friend of mine who was a forensic pathologist(he is retired now) pointed out that the death mk suffered was most likely done by a male who was very angry.
he was concerened that guede had gone to the bathroom and not flushed the toilet because that could be a sign of a very unstable person. angry males who murdered women may defecate in the same area, much like a male marking his territory.
i'm not saying this is what happened here but i find that very interesting.
my thanks to mr preston. I am not amazed to find that mignini has legal problems now.
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#97312
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:39 p.m.
97297 "I remain mystified as to why some people are so afraid to let this investigation continue, and why so many agendas have creeped in."
Could it be because we would hate to see another innocent person railroaded by this man? If indeed this is what is happening wouldn't you too like to see this man taken off this case and investigated properly. Or are you just that convinced Amanda is guilty based on leaks?
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#97313
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:40 p.m.
Does anybody know if a time frame has been established for filing charges, or if a hearing is scheduled? I'm curious what the next steps in this case are.
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#97325
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 3:57 p.m.
Actually, there are three statements, and all are quite unambiguous:
We are putting our faith in the Italian system.
We don't know what the result will be.
We have no choice.
Those seem to me to be 3 very clear statements.
The first one unambiguous and requires no elaboration.
The second one is true, since the preliminary investigation is ongoing.
The third one is also true. This crime was committed on Italian soil. It is up to the Italians to investigate this matter. They are doing so. The Kerchers realize this. They have not asked Scotland Yard to step in.
97305
I am neither from the UK nor British. But I am appalled by statements about moral character based on family/socioeconomic circumstances and by statements about nationality, race and so on. Not all of the posters who have been vocal are British--and how would one know? You thought I was, and you happen to be wrong. And speaking of critical faculties, where are yours? I think a lacl thereof is pretty evenly distributed among all races and nationalities.
97312
I have seen no evidence that this case is not being investigated properly. Mignini is being dealt with in the other matter within the usual channels.
If he is taken off this case, how would that change the course of this investigation? That is truly an interesting question to ponder.
97309-
That's really the key question of this whole case.
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#97328
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:03 p.m.
#97303 Regarding the Kercher family's faith in the Italian investigative and judicial process: unlike the legal teams and families of the current suspects, the Kercher family and their Italian lawyer have made a point of avoiding declarations and opinions on the process. In fact, the only times when it has been possible to get a spar*ely worded comment out the family is when reporters have physically and purposefully crossed paths with them in the street. No interview shows or the like.
As for their Italian lawyer, Francesco Maresca, he has been very discrete in this process. While he has appeared on Matrix and other such TV shows in Italy (I urge all readers to try to watch through Internet, even if you don't understand all the language), his presence and body language in itself is the message: he is there to show that there is interest and following of events by the Kercher family. Apart from his presence, he is extremely discrete and unadventurous in his words (which is to be applauded). He has been supportive of the investigation on one hand, and not disparaging of the other parts involved, on the other. (At the same time he has corrected clearly incorrect declarations: before Christmas when Raffaele's father stated on Matrix that he had sent the Kercher family a telegram on the day of Meredith's funeral, Maresca quickly intervened to state that to his and the family's knowledge, no communication had been received from any of the suspects' families).
I think that's a good, positive attitude. He has simply stated in contacts that the press has had with him, that when the time comes to review the evidence, he confides that the data will be there to move forward.
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#97329
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:04 p.m.
To 97325: Shame, shame Skep - posting anonymously over here. Things are quite boring on the other site, eh?
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#97332
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:08 p.m.
97303 and 97328,
Thanks for your post 97328.
As for the statement by Arline Kercher, interviewed on Italian television, I think the entire quotation as published in the telegraph is worth calling attention to:
Mrs Kercher said: "We are putting our faith in Italian justice but who knows what the result will be. We have no choice.
"I remember her love for us and our love for her.
"We have had so many letters from people in Italy. People who we don't even know and who wanted to express their sympathy."
It is heartwarming to know that the people of Italy have taken the time to express their condolences to this dignified family.
Their lawyer is as low-profile and discreet as they are. He has also asked that anyone with any information that could help resolve this matter step forward without fear.
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#97333
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 4:09 p.m.
#97325
What's your agenda? No one, but you, has mentioned moral character, race, class, or nationality.
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#97334
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:13 p.m.
97329-
Huh????
97333-
Hello?
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#97335
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:14 p.m.
#97325 "If he is taken off this case, how would that change the course of this investigation? That is truly an interesting question to ponder."
It would not cancel the value or useability of investigative analysis done up until now. In the case of the Monster of Florence, Mignini supposedly ignored the good work of police investigators. Any legal or administrative action against Mignini in that case does not cancel the investigation.
If Mignini were to be cast aside from the Kercher case (which I personally don't see any likelihood of happening), a new prosecutor would be named, he or she would take over the work done to date, he or she may decide on new avenues of investigation, or continue on exactly the same line followed by Mignini. The process itself would continue.
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#97340
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 4:25 p.m.
#97335
If Mignini loses his position due to his abuse of office, I doubt the next prosecutor would continue to carry the ball for him. I believe there would be a review of hard evidence by sane professionals, same as was done in the Nifong situation in N.C.
By the way, it was interesting to read Doug's job description of Italian prosecutors, since we've just had a stateside view of what can happen when the wrong person is entrusted with the power of the state.
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#97342
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:28 p.m.
#97332 "It is heartwarming to know that the people of Italy have taken the time to express their condolences to this dignified family."
Indeed, no one in this case has suffered more, and no one is going to suffer more than the Kercher family has suffered, is suffering, and will continue to suffer. It's not like, "well, they lost their daughter, what a shame ... can't they just get over it?"
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#97347
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:37 p.m.
#97340 "I doubt the next prosecutor would continue to carry the ball for him."
I didn't say a hypothetical new prosecutor would do Mignini's work for him. I said that he could follow the same line of investigation if he felt that were appropriate, or he could expand it to new areas of focus. Any evidence already obtained would continue to form part of the case (maybe it would be used in court or not).
"it was interesting to read Doug's job description of Italian prosecutors". Don't get off topic. We could get into a discussion of the good and the bad of legal and judicial systems on both sides of the Atlantic. ... (just one example, bear with me Candace) like politically appointed judges?? That's weird. So, if prosecutors lead an investigation in Italy, that's just the way it's done.
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#97348
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:40 p.m.
97335
Thanks for your comment. It's helpful. Somehow I don't think it is likely he will be taken off this case, so it seems kind of silly to get people's hopes up. Do you know if the charges against him are legal or administrative?
What I don't get now is how people know he has botched this case. I mean, maybe he has, but where's the evidence other than the errors for which he's being held accountable in the other case? So I wonder how serious the charges are? Didn't stop him from staying in his job up til now.
And if he has botched it, does this mean that even the evidence against Rudy is suspect?
This could be very good news for all the people who are now waiting to be charged or released. Somebody asked about the timeline. I think I read there's a hearing on April 1 for all three suspects, and they are asking to be released. So there will be a review of the evidence I suppose. But will that be made public?
The prosecutor has also said the investigation would be wrapped up by summer. Maybe there will be some pressure to either bring charges or drop them at this time?
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#97350
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 4:52 p.m.
#97348
I think you might find more info about the Mignini case in post 97210 (near the middle), there is a reference link also. And thanks for answering my question about the time frames of this case.
Cheers
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#97358
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 5:11 p.m.
Readers,
This is a lie:
"The initial interview, which has since been modified, did indeed contain a reference to what little intelligence British readers of the blog possess, and a reference to the incompetence of the Italians."
I've deleted the post for that reason.
The only changes made to the story were additional pictures and one wonderful addition from Doug. I asked him to address the famous Guede calls.
And frankly I'm sick of readers who can't defend their own stupidity and have to attack the messenger instead.
You have reached a new low.
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#97368
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 5:52 p.m.
97365. I am reposting your comment minus the libelous parts. Please be more careful in the future. If you're going to accuse the Italian prosecutor of unspeakable facts, then you have to cite proof.
Readers, I did NOT write this.
I think to myself that to have your child virtually murdered alive by being put in prison for 30 years by a (what appears to be) mentally unstable prosecutor.
Then being forced to come beg for your child while the police dangle your child in front of you, while all the time you know that the evidence they have is weak.
If this had been my daughter she'd be locked up in jail for the next 30 years because we don't have $500 thousand or more to defend her.
To those parents who are thinking of letting their children go to Italy for studies, how can you now let your children go to this country, now that you know what you know?
I tell you that the only thing ak parents have to thank those tabloids for is making it known what was happening in Italy. If the word had not gotten out, ak's parents would never of had enough money to buy themselves justice in Italy.
Am I the only parent out here thinking these thoughts?
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#97377
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 6:27 p.m.
Am I the only parent out here thinking these thoughts?
As the mother of two children about Amanda's age, that's certainly NOT what I'm thinking! I can't imagine writing off travel to an entire beautiful country based on this case. And I would be telling my child to tell the truth and tell it now. I will love you no matter what - but tell everything you know. She was your flatmate...
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#97387
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:03 p.m.
"To those parents who are thinking of letting their children go to Italy for studies, how can you now let your children go to this country, now that you know what you know?"
This kind of comment, which is certainly sincere, is exactly why I feel we must be very careful about what we say with regard to this case, how it is being handled, and the judicial system that has jurisdiction in the matter. It is being suggested that the prosecutor is mishandling this case based on his handling of another case, but what do we know for sure about this? I've seen alarmist comments here about the people of Perugia probably being afraid to speak up and all sorts of other things that are unproven and indeed difficult to prove, but which seek to whip people into an understandable but misguided frenzy. Nobody is "dangling" Amanda Knox in front of her parents with scant evidence, and to talk of being "virtually murdered alive" overstates the case and, of course, in doing so trivializes the life and death of someone who WAS murdered alive. In fact, everyone who is murdered is murdered while they're alive.
In fact, the murder rate in most if not all European countries is much lower than in the US; the right to bear arms is not a given (as a reminder, more people are killed from accidents involving handguns than from any intent to shoot and kill in the US); there is no death penalty. The streets are generally safer and the level of fear in the population is much lower. If I were the parent of someone who wanted to go to Italy or almost anywhere else in the world, I would advise my child to study the laws and customs of the place he or she is going to for starters.
To some extent, we reap what we sow. When we reap fear, we sow panic and mistrust.
Amanda Knox certainly could not have imagined that her quarter abroad would turn out this way. Hers is a cautionary tale in a globalized world. But let's not turn it into a general call to arms and paranoia.
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#97389
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:16 p.m.
re: 97387
"I would advise my child to study the laws and customs of the place he or she is going to for starters."
Sound advice. Unfortunately, this seems to be forgotten by many (but not all) young American travelers.
"When we reap fear, we sow panic and mistrust."
Much to consider in this statement, as we are bombarded with so much misinformation and propaganda in the media - not just with this particular case, but in general.
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#97390
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 7:17 p.m.
97377. I agree with you about not writing an entire country off, especially beautiful Italy, which I also love. Many students go there every year without incident.
I also love the Italian people, especially my many relatives there.
But you are assuming that AK is guilty and has lied to the police. "And I would be telling my child to tell the truth and tell it now. I will love you no matter what - but tell everything you know. She was your flatmate."
AK has talked to the police at great length. She has not been believed.
If I were her, I would not talk either. No lawyer would advise that. She has an Italian lawyer. She is following his advice.
I am raising a kid myself. I would never advise him to talk to the police without a lawyer present. AK did that for days and days before her arrest.
We have Miranda warnings in the U.S. for a good reason. We also have the right not to speak. That is a fundamental human right.
I would also remind my child that Amanda is innocent until proven guilty. That's true in Italy as well as in the US.
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#97394
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:21 p.m.
97377
how do you know she didn't tell the truth.
you don't and you can't.
why?
cause the police won't tell you the truth.
you want to visit a land like this?
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#97395
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 7:22 p.m.
97383. "When we reap fear, we sow panic and mistrust."
Talk about stereotypes.
It's news to me that American college students are reaping fear in Italy. Please. There is only one American in this case. She hasn't even been charged with a crime.
Besides, Italians are not easily frightened. That's one of the many things I like about them.
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#97397
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:24 p.m.
If Amanda had told a believable, credible story when she was simply considered a witness, I do not believe (I know many people do!) that she would have become a suspect. Certainly many other young "witnesses" were questioned but did not become suspects. Yes, I believe there is a valid reason for that.
I may be naive but I stand by my initial position. Tell the truth. The first time. It does not appear to me that Amanda did that. And because her story continues to contradict Raffaele's, I believe one or the other, and probably both, still have not done so.
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#97399
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:30 p.m.
Actually Candace, I personally did not interpret the "when we reap fear, we sow panic and mistrust" comment as a stereotype.
I thought the writer of that post was commenting on reaping fear, in reference to perhaps "don't go to Italy because you'll end up in jail" which will "sow panic and mistrust" from that line of thinking. Just a different take on what was presented. Maybe that wirter will clarify.
(I have been disenchanted with the entire "fear" campaign that has been going on with the current administration in the U.S. and am a bit hyper-sensitive)
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#97401
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:31 p.m.
97294
how do you know she didn't tell the truth.
you don't and you can't.
why?
cause the police won't tell you the truth.
I can't "know" (BTW, I said believe, not know) that Amanda didn't tell the truth but you can "know" the police won't??
The corruption and conspiracy theories are getting ridiculous. I'll believe there is a problem with police credibility when people who are familiar with the case and are on the scene make a specific accusation. To date, I have heard none and I don't believe it serves Amanda's defense well at all to be claiming police brutality or police corruption with no case-specific evidence.
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#97404
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:35 p.m.
i still say.....
who says she didn't tell the truth at first but when the prosecutor didn't like it, he just kept (for lack of a better term cause we don't want to be sued) browbeat her......
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#97405
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:36 p.m.
97404
Why didn't he do that to the other witnesses?
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#97407
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:38 p.m.
who says she didn't tell the truth at first but when the prosecutor didn't like it, he just kept (for lack of a better term cause we don't want to be sued) browbeat her......
Her story and Raffaele's didn't match. Seems like a no-brainer in terms of continued interrogation. At least one of them must not have been telling the truth.
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#97408
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:41 p.m.
#97397
"If Amanda had told a believable, credible story when she was simply considered a witness, I do not believe (I know many people do!) that she would have become a suspect."
Oh my, you have jumped on the media band-wagon. It seems you are believing everything you read.
In addition, have you been interrogated in a foreign country, in which the countries language is not your first?
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#97411
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 7:48 p.m.
you don't know what is true and not.... how do we know that raffael story and hers did not match....
so how can we even comment
all we can talk about is facts we know about....
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#97419
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 8:19 p.m.
It is being suggested that the prosecutor is mishandling this case based on his handling of another case...
This case was "closed" within a few days (and without major forensic work completed,,,or any completed) and the theory of the crime was: a wild sex orgy resulting in murder with several perps. Unlikely on its face and with some basic information ludicrous. Hence the suspicion of the "handling" of the case.
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#97422
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 8:30 p.m.
what good is a beautiful country if you can't trust the police.
look at preston, he's in fear of going back to italy.
does this sound like a good thing.
according to preston he has been setup.
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#97426
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 8:32 p.m.
"To some extent, we reap what we sow. When we reap fear, we sow panic and mistrust."
Excuse me, I meant to write when we sow fear, we reap panic and mistrust. But either way, I truly fail to see how this could be understood as stereotyping Americans abroad.
I'm reassured that at least one poster understood that my intention was not to stereotype anyone. I wasn't talking about American youth scaring Europeans. That wasn't the subject of the post.
I was talking about the danger of instilling fear in people everywhere, young and old, American and European, about venturing out in the world. If I understood the post I was responding to, at least one parent is now afraid to send her kids abroad lest they wind up at the mercy of some maniacal man of the law. This fear is overblown, and can lead to more panic and mustrust in the world. That's kind of sad. 97399, you understood exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for being an attentive reader.
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#97429
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 8:44 p.m.
you don't know what is true and not.... how do we know that raffael story and hers did not match....
so how can we even comment
all we can talk about is facts we know about....
And which facts would those be?
Yes, all any of us have to go on are media reports at this point. Or is the media all part of this comspiracy too?
There's no point in any discussion if everything that's reported is simply considered false.
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#97431
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 8:45 p.m.
In addition, have you been interrogated in a foreign country, in which the countries language is not your first?
Even her mother, I believe, acknowledged that an interpreter was present. At this point, none of us know the actual conditions of her questioning.
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#97436
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 8:51 p.m.
#97426
I was talking about the danger of instilling fear in people everywhere, young and old, American and European, about venturing out in the world. If I understood the post I was responding to, at least one parent is now afraid to send her kids abroad lest they wind up at the mercy of some maniacal man of the law.
Well, it's something to consider, isn't it? I doubt the discussions about this case will be "instilling fear in people..."
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#97445
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 9:05 p.m.
#97426
Theories like Mignini's are what instill fear in people. Imagine how many students are no longer comfortable with their own neighbors and housemates because of all the weird scenarios he's concocted.
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#97448
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 9:12 p.m.
Okay, I get the point about not reaping fear. Thanks for clarifying. Be bold, American college students. Go out into the world. It is a beautiful place, especially Italy.
*******
Re: interrogation
Here's what Doug told the Atlantic Monthly about being interrogated by the same judge who interrogated Amanda. Note that he speaks fluent Italian and was still greatly intimidated. Also he was not a 20-year-old girl:
Question: Judge Giuliano Mignini, the public prosecutor who interrogated you, is another important player in the case. Was Mignini just doing his job? How much weight do you give to the idea that Mignini had it in for Spezi and you?
Answer: First of all, as a novelist I’ve written about what it’s like to be interrogated. I understood that it’s a psychologically daunting experience, but you really can’t have any conception of what it’s like to be strongly interrogated until you undergo it.
It’s a humiliating experience. You have no power. And it’s especially difficult in a foreign language. In order to speak well and to be convincing you have to have tremendous command of the language. And when you don’t you sound like a liar even when you’re not.
I remember in this interrogation thinking, “My God, I sound like a liar. If I were Mignini, I wouldn’t believe me, stumbling, stuttering, and sweating, and using the wrong words, and backtracking, and saying things two or three times, and trying to explain what I meant.” I was thinking, “They’re going to take me from this room and put me in jail, and I’m not going to see my wife and kids again, or at least for a while.”
I was terrified that I was not going to see the outside world again. Because of course the crimes they were accusing me of were very serious.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200606u/preston-interview/2
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#97450
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 9:27 p.m.
Thanks for explaining my earlier comments to the readers who were confused, Candace. I can be too spar*e with words for some people, I know.
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#97451
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 9:45 p.m.
a quote from above
"It was only at that one point, after 14 hours of interrogation, that she seemed to waver and say she was in the house with her hands over her ears. If she did indeed waver."
14 hours straight....
ak breaks after 14 hours
i got a question..... who told preston that it was 14 hours straight? 14 hours is not a guess. it is exact.
it could only be someone in ak family.
so here is a fact....
you take a 20 year old and run her thru a 14 hour interrogation....
why did her story change.... well duh.... after 14 hours she probably confessed to be the man on the grassy knoll.
i know that we americans have our problems with "interrogations" so we can't really throw stones here but at least we're about to kick that person out of office.....
if the italian kick out that prosecutor and change the way they handle their legal system (prosecutors should not be in charge of the police) and move towards an adversarial system then i would love to visit that beautiful land..... but i'd bet the italians would be a lot happier.
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#97452
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 9:48 p.m.
I thought one of the most frightening parts of Preston's interrogation was Mignini's playing of bits of bugged conversations, out of context, and demanding Doug's explanation for "what they really meant."
Mignini repeatedly asked the same questions and played a tape recording of a casual phone conversation Preston had with Spezi days before. "He replayed and stopped the tape over and over after every phrase, demanding what we 'really meant', as if we were speaking in code." He felt under pressure to confess to a crime he hadn't committed.
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/14/ita
ly.ukcrime
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#97457
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 10:05 p.m.
so what happens to these "prosecutors" after they are found guilty?
my bet is on 0 zilch nada....
he is protected by the system...
lovely
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#97458
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 10:07 p.m.
Frank, who writes the clever and informative Perugia Shock blog, seems to have a different take on Mignini's power. I've found him to be a pretty reliable local source. Much more credible than people here dreaming up conspiracy theories.
2befrank said...
Ciao,
just wanna say something since many people seem particularly hit by the figure of GM.
People think is a kind of king who can dispose of suspects however he wants. Yes, he can throw you to jail, but if he's wrong the Gip is going to free you immediately, as it happened to Spezie.
So people shouldn't demonize him too much. He can have you investigated, but he has no real power at all.
The system is made in a way that if you meet a crazy cop or commissioner or PM or judge, there are other powers that can cancel his own and he has to respond to the law too.
So, no problem, the persecution is not technically possible. At least, in Italy.
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#97465
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 10:24 p.m.
candace, the only reason you find this country lovely still is because you never got caught up in the nasty little legal system there.... or got introduced to their lovely police.
the word macho really comes to mind.
i find that this is a little bit like russian roulette
you are taking your chances and all you need is to get the wrong turn just that one time.
one of these days ak will be let out(hopefully not in 30 yrs) and the truth will come out.... it won't be pretty for italy...
if they don't straighten out their legal system, i hope they get what they deserve.
i could not blame parents anywhere for refusing to send their children into a country that can't put limits on what a policeman is allowed to do.
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#97468
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/11/08 10:37 p.m.
Readers,
I cannot resist offering a little comic relief at the table.
The press, having nothing better to report, has focused today on the rumor that Amanda's fellow prisoners don't appreciate her repetitious singing of the Beatle's "Let It Be."
Some newspapers even printed the lyrics, in a desperate search for clues.
I say the problem is not singing "Let It Be" loudly or too often, but that she's chosen a Beatles song with the wrong lead singer. Paul McCartney, who went on to write a hundred silly love songs.
John Lennon is the man she needs. No one will tire of Don't Let Me Down
Just check out the way John gives Paul McCartney a look, like he's saying, "I'm a man. Don't try that silly sentimental stuff around me."
Even better: Bob Dylan's I Shall Be Released
I used to play it non-stop at college during finals week.
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#97469
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 10:39 p.m.
#97458
Maybe Frank would feel differently about the prosecutor's having "no real power at all" if he found himself locked up in prison for a year while police tried to build a case against him. I doubt Spezi felt he'd been released "immediately" after his weeks in prison. I believe part of that time was spent in solitary confinement and he was allowed to see no one.
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#97471
Posted by Palmetto at 2/11/08 10:43 p.m.
My favorite would not be the one to sing in prison: Maxwell's Silver Hammer
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#97473
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 10:48 p.m.
oh my god,
i just looked at the lyrics of let it be.
if you take every 14th syllable and spell it backwards it spells out "mignini is the monster"
check it out.
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#97476
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:02 p.m.
RE #97458
"just wanna say something since many people seem particularly hit by the figure of GM.
People think is a kind of king who can dispose of suspects however he wants. Yes, he can throw you to jail, but if he's wrong the Gip is going to free you immediately, as it happened to Spezie.
So people shouldn't demonize him too much. He can have you investigated, but he has no real power at all.
The system is made in a way that if you meet a crazy cop or commissioner or PM or judge, there are other powers that can cancel his own and he has to respond to the law too.
So, no problem, the persecution is not technically possible. At least, in Italy."
----------
So...whats one year of your life. No biggie right?
So he locks you up for a while...youll get out, at some point, maybe. You shouldnt sweat it at all. It is just being tossed in the can, stripped in front of guards, made to shower, naked, in front of them, Made to squat and show them your privates and told to push so they can verify you have no contraband in there, even though you are not charged with anything. Then tossed in a room with nobody else for 1 week and watched to make sure you dont kill yourself because everything you just went through is so traumatic that it is common knowledge that many first timers do try to kill themselves simply because they cant handle the whole innocence in jail and unjustly accused aspect of it as well as the dehumanizing initial process of incarceration.
Guess that when you get out you can count it as a character builder right? Because you are going to get out of there...the GIP will come to the rescue most certainly because they can tell that you are different from the others, you are one of THOSE that just got picked on by the prosecutor...just another one of THOSE people and not a criminal like they say you are.
Right...
People put up with that kind of crap?
What a bunch of sheep.
I dont know about you posters here but I know that I would not bend over and take it nor would anyone else that I personally know.
These people need to stand up for their rights and if it is not one of their rights then they need to do something about that too.
Baaaaah!
If frank ever has a year of his life taken from him, I wonder if he will think differently, or just bounce back and say eh...whats one year!?
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#97478
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:06 p.m.
#97458 "People think [Mignini] is a kind of king who can dispose of suspects however he wants."
On April 1, Raffaele and Amanda will have their third, and Rudy his second, hearing before a judge (like real judge, not a prosecuting magistrate) to consider evidence regarding their continued incarceration. In all prior hearings, these judges have considered that there is enough evidence to keep them in prison. In Amanda's last hearing, she invoked her right not to respond to the judge's questions, having promised in an newspaper interview she did through her lawyer a few days before that she was going to take advantage of the hearing to offer "her truth".
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#97481
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:12 p.m.
#97451
"It was only at that one point, after 14 hours of interrogation, that she seemed to waver and say she was in the house with her hands over her ears. If she did indeed waver."
She waivered at 5:30 a.m. I believe. Raffaele implicated Amanda at 10:30 p.m. (before hand) I believe ("I'm not sure if she was with me between 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. on the night of the murder"). They initiated Amanda's questioning following Raffaele's wavering.
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#97484
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:17 p.m.
RE #97478
You think that she didnt offer the truth?
What is the truth? You seem to know.
AK invoked her right to say no more after her truth fell on deaf ears and the questioning got ugly and abusive once again.
Your "truth" has nothing to do with the reality we are dealing with here. The reality is that she is unjustly accused.
It is easy to see from reading both RS and AKs diary which is out on the net that they were told blatant lies to turn them against each other. If you continue to read on, they both seem to have a moment of clarity, once in prison and left alone by the police that this is what happened. It took them quite some time to get over their interrogations where it appears that they were nearly brain washed into thinking that the story fed to them by the police was true.
This story that was fed to them is the "truth" you speak of and it cannot be farther from reality.
The reality that she is innocent.
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#97488
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:39 p.m.
The great thing about Frank is that he is not sanctimonious and generally knows what he's talking about. It's always like a breath of fresh air to read his blog.
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#97495
Posted by unregistered user at 2/11/08 11:55 p.m.
look at preston, he's in fear of going back to italy
From what I have read he can't go to Europe too (EU)cause after they made up some charges against him, they dropped them, they let him go to the airport and leave Italy, and then reinstated them. Impossible to justify that behavior --it mocks the law.
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#97498
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 12:03 a.m.
Here is one of my favorite Frank's, penned while Rudy was still in Germany, awaiting extradition:
"This morning a letter from Rudy Guede arrived from Germany to his lawyers. He says again he didn't kill Meredith, and he can't wait for come back.
Sure Rudy, they also can't wait for hugging you.
He says they aren't treating him that well because he's black, he complains about the menu in the jail saying the appetite wakes him up at night. And he asks his father to send him 20 €. If anyone else wants to take care please send the money to the Schifferstadt Penitentiary.
Of course he wants to come back. Italian food is still the best. And they have such a yummy menu for him at "Grand Hotel". Hurry up, Rudy, the room is already booooked.
Anyway, the german judge has finally signed the extradition, so mr Guede can arrive some days in advance. Maybe already this Thursday."
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#97504
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 12:34 a.m.
#97484 "AK invoked her right to say no more after her truth fell on deaf ears and the questioning got ugly and abusive once again."
The following questioning is ugly and abusive? It sounds like ILE trying to clarify a crime:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3067558.ece
"Amanda Knox, the American student suspected of involvement in the murder of her flatmate Meredith Kercher in Perugia, broke down and cried during questioning when asked how she could possibly know so much about Ms Kercher's "death agony" if she was not there .... Her lawyer said Ms Knox had "exercised her right not to speak" for the rest of the interrogation."
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#97506
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 12:57 a.m.
#97504
Were you there to judge the ugliness of it? The line they were following? No. Was the Times there? No.
Did AK have a chance to tell her story? No.
There was nothing past the questioning that turned ugly and abusive once again.
She has not been given a chance to tell her side. Not in any of the hearings. She has only been questioned and only about things that are pertinent to the prosecutors intentions. Never has she been give the opportunity to speak on her behalf. Only to answer questions that are barked at her. Questions that are not relevant to her circumstances and involvement.
She has no involvement in this past going home and finding her house in a state it should not have been.
The police are the ones that found MK so she doesnt even have any involvement in that either.
As for her knowing about the crime scene? She was right there when they broke the door down. The room is very small, look at the pictures of it. The horrible picture they took of the scene (whoever released that is lower than dirt) was taken at the doorway and you could see plenty from there. So what are you getting at?
You pretend to know but you have nothing more than a news article to go on? Is that it?
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#97567
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 9:00 a.m.
Hi everyone,
Last night a lot of people came in, complaining that AK wouldn't talk. Just wanted to point out that she is acting on advice of her Italian lawyer. In fact everybody involved has an Italian lawyer (it is required) and all of them are telling their clients to button up.
Patrick (not that I blame him) isn't talking to the courts either. He was due to answer some interrogatories way back on Dec. 3.
As Frank of Perugia Shock noted then: "Let's remember that Patrick will still have to explain a few of things. Such as why his cellphone turned off at about the same time that Amanda's and Raffaele's turned off. And there is the other particular, never confirmed, that his cellphone may have been in the same cell of Meredith house after 8:30 pm.
Explain, Patrick, explain."
*****
On Dec. 4, Frank wrote this:
"Lumumba "Patrick" Diya, just appeared in front of prosecutor for the new round of interrogatories. He claimed himself innocent and, from what leacked, appealed to the faculty of not to answer.
Not very kind of you, Patrick. There was something to be explained.
But, of course, he doesn't talk for free anymore.
They should have asked his agent first..."
http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2007/12/patrick-doesnt-respond.htm
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#97570
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 9:14 a.m.
#97476
True that.
Baaaaaaaaaaa indeed.
FREE AMANDA!
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#97573
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 9:25 a.m.
97036
You said:
"I have personally read the transcripts from that particular interview/interrogation - and she definitely said she was present and heard the screams of the victim.
I don't believe anyone thinks Amanda is the murderer - not in their right mind anyway. However, the doubt that has been placed in peoples minds is whether she was there or not and exactly what was her involvement if any."
Since you have had the opportunity to read her interogation transcript, can you tell us exactly how the question was asked to Amanda? What was the question that she responded to where she said she was present? Not only would it be nice to know exactly what the question was that was asked of her....but also was it asked in Italian or English. What was her exact reply?
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#97586
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 10:01 a.m.
A very wise man once said:
"If people only spoke when they had something to say, an incredible hush would descend upon the world."
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#97611
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 10:55 a.m.
#97506
I'm not the person you are talking to but regarding the suspect Amanda Knox seeing into the room when the door was broken down by the Postal Police, I believe the concern of law enforcement is that Amanda's ~alleged~ statement to others put the victim's body elsewhere in the room. (other than where it was actually found upon the door being broken down) Unfortunately, the location suspect Knox (allegedly) referred to is where crime reconstructionists believe the actual killing of the victim took place.
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#97614
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 11:06 a.m.
97611
Very good questions and I too await with interest a response from 97036....
Also agree re were the body was compared to where the murder was... how could she have known??
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#97632
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 11:36 a.m.
97614
With all due respect, I didn't ask any questions. Also, I was responding to 97506, not 97036. As for how the suspect could/may/allegedly known this? I don't have an answer to that.
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#97634
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 11:43 a.m.
Readers,
Let's move on. The whole "She knew something only the killer would know" has been discussed and discussed. We don't know how the crime was committed. The police have not told us. So how could she have secret knowledge?
That wouldn't even be convincing on a TV show.
Let's please discuss the many issues raised in Doug's article. Thanks.
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#97639
Posted by funnycat at 2/12/08 11:54 a.m.
The comments of #97506 and 97484 are suported by the story of Doug Preston about his interrogation in Italy.
On a lighter note, Robin Pomeroy reports for ABC news today that Italian scientists have proven that Napoleon, who died in 1821, was not poisoned by the British. Thus it has taken 187 years to reach this conclusion: the British are innocent. I wonder if Amanda and Raffaelle will be proven innocent in a more timely manner. Funny Cat
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#97642
Posted by funnycat at 2/12/08 11:57 a.m.
Please correct spelling of "supported."
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#97675
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 1:31 p.m.
hanks, Funnycat. We needed some comic relief.
Here's some good comments I swiped from Perugia shock on the Amanada-knew-too-much topic. Then, please, dear God, let's discuss something else. Also note that AK &
RS were also over-hearing stuff at the cottage and they spoke to the police at the station as well. So of course they would know more than the other witnesses.
"That room is pretty small. the body could have been found on the bed or on the floor next to the closet. Reasonable deductions to me would be she probably saw the body when the great postal police kicked in the door. God I love that name...Postal Police....sounds frightening...LOL.
I have no doubt that she probably saw the body when the police entered the room...(oops...the mail police). I would think that their first move would have been to check and see if she was still alive and I doubt that they had expected to find a dead body in the room so while the postal police where checking the vitals of M, I am pretty sure bystanders most likely had plenty of time to take a look inside the room.
There is no smoking gun here and I think that ya'll are just barking up the wrong tree."
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#97678
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 1:39 p.m.
97675-
Here's the rest of the string from the comments on Frank's blog. It's more interesting that way:
Let's talk more about this finding the body in the room thing.
Didn't the police find the body one place, then after days of deduction decide she had been murdered by the wardrobe?
So it wouldn't matter if AK was standing at the door and looked in when they broke it down (which I doubt anyway).
betty
February 10, 2008 4:05 AM
Anonymous said...
Didn't the police find the body one place, then after days of deduction decide she had been murdered by the wardrobe?
This is the problem with Amanda's story according to the police.
She described the body as being in the position where Meredith was murdered and not in the position where her body was found by the postal police.
Brian.
February 10, 2008 5:55 AM
2befrank said...
Buona sera,
Simeone, it's not that PM and Gip have to always get along. If they disagree it's ok, that means the system works.
Nimue, if your search brought you to reread In Prais of Folly, that's a great result.
Betty and Brian,
either way it seems she knew something she couldn't know.
Hey the postal police can be really frightening. Those are the ones who catch you online.
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#97681
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 1:44 p.m.
97678
Sort of like the Bible, isn't it? One can find a passage to absolve oneself of just about anything.
"Every tool is a weapon, if you hold it right" Ani DiFranco
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#97690
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 2:03 p.m.
Okay, I sort of regained my sense of humor today. I didn't even see the stuff below the quote I liked. Got me! that is funny.
Now can we please please please move on?
Sigh.
This Temple of Doom stuff makes for dreary reading. There has to be at least one person out there who thinks Amanda isn't guilty until proven guilty.
I'm getting scared about the jury system. Honest to God.
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#97696
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 2:33 p.m.
#97690 Candace: "There has to be at least one person out there who thinks Amanda isn't guilty until proven guilty."
Guilty of what? Murder? My gut feeling isn't that she's guilty of murder. My gut feeling is that she may be guilty of obstruction of justice / destruction of evidence (whatever the Italians call it), and perhaps in the worst case breaking the Good Samaritan law (not assisting a person in mortal danger).
But we have to wait for the Italian authorities to decide what crimes have been committed, and see what evidence they have accumulated. Until then it's all speculation, and my gut feeling is as correct or incorrect as yours.
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#97698
Posted by unregistered user at 2/12/08 2:37 p.m.
Douglas Preston is not a neutral observer. He has an ax to grind against Mignini. I find it very interesting that Preston accepts without question the guilt of Rudy Guede, but claims that the evidence the prosecution claims to have against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is fabricated. I find it very interesting that he claims Knox and Sollecito are innocent because of their family backgrounds. Do I need to mention the cases of Ted Bundy or Karla Homulka? I find it extraordinary that he says he knew that Sollecito was innocent as soon as he saw a photograph of him. Mr Preston's comments about British people being stupid add to the impression that his conclusions are based on prior assumptions, rather than forensic analysis.
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#97719
Posted by Candace Dempsey at 2/12/08 3:27 p.m.
#97690. Thanks for explaining. I appreciate that. I don't get how AK could have broken any Good Samaritan laws that night (if that's part of Italian law, don't know). She said she wasn't there. The police haven't proved that she was.
Also, if she was there and didn't call for help, she certainly wasn't the only one. We have more than one person reporting noise, screaming and people running, but nobody called police.
I'm sure there's a reason for that. I am not blaming them. But there it is.
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